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Era of flat pitches
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
I have no problems with flat tracks so long as we do not become inundated with them......
I'm all for local pitch characteristics that we see in each country, I'd just like to see them be a bit closer to the 5 day ideal as I outlined earlier so we can see the range of cricketing skills come to the fore across the 5 days - from your dour opening batsman thru to your stroke makers, seam bowlers & spinners.
I'm all for local pitch characteristics that we see in each country, I'd just like to see them be a bit closer to the 5 day ideal as I outlined earlier so we can see the range of cricketing skills come to the fore across the 5 days - from your dour opening batsman thru to your stroke makers, seam bowlers & spinners.
thierry henry
International Coach
If you want green wickets, come to NZ.
Anyway, I dunno if I would want to go back to uncovered pitches- I can't make my mind up about it to be honest. I think the first test pitch in the Aussie-India series wasn't bad. Funny thing is, I heard a lot of Aussies claiming that that pitch was a green-top, and bemoaning the Aussies "poor batting effort" in making 300+. To me that pitch wasn't too bad for batting but had a little bit of seam movement, it was good.
Anyway, I dunno if I would want to go back to uncovered pitches- I can't make my mind up about it to be honest. I think the first test pitch in the Aussie-India series wasn't bad. Funny thing is, I heard a lot of Aussies claiming that that pitch was a green-top, and bemoaning the Aussies "poor batting effort" in making 300+. To me that pitch wasn't too bad for batting but had a little bit of seam movement, it was good.
Craig
World Traveller
Where you able to go to the Test in Darwin against Bangladesh?anzac said:I have no problems with flat tracks so long as we do not become inundated with them......
I'm all for local pitch characteristics that we see in each country, I'd just like to see them be a bit closer to the 5 day ideal as I outlined earlier so we can see the range of cricketing skills come to the fore across the 5 days - from your dour opening batsman thru to your stroke makers, seam bowlers & spinners.
It looked a good wicket IMO and so at Cairns.
Craig said:
No I had to work unfortunately.........
the only complaints I heard about the Darwin pitch (being a drop in as well as the turf being relayed), was that it kept a little lower than 'normal' Aussie pitches.
Cairns from all accounts was a belter of a pitch, although I don't know about it doing enough to assist the bowling team for days 4&5 as we did not get that far!!!!
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
For me david is totally right about why almost all CBs want pitches that don't help most bowlers take wickets quickly - Test-matches need to last as long as possible to sate TV companies' demands.
And some do give a damn about nothing but runs (ideally quick runs). Personally I can't stand that attitude.
Anyway, it rarely results in a load of draws, because when teams concede 550-600, their batsmen generally feel obliged to collapse, handing bowlers credit for "conquering difficult conditions" and ensuring a loss.
For me, the important thing is that all wickets are not the same. There will obviously be variations within a country and that, too, is part of the beauty of the spread of the game (for instance, I like the fact that Wantage Road and Sophia Gardens offer far more turn than most places in England).
These are the conditions I like to see more often than not in each country\region:
Subcontinent - slow, low, turning, breaking-up from the end of day three.
England, New Zealand and Zimbabwe - seam-movement for the first two days, ideally throughout the match. Not too much (and in some cases there is too much) but ideally hard-wearing grass that only offers seam-movement if you hit the seam perfectly.
West Indies, Australia and South Africa - wickets offering a bit more bounce than the subcontinent, but still some seam. Less than England or New Zealand, but some nonetheless. Eg. that like we recently saw at The 'Gabba.
I never like uneven bounce. On any wicket, anywhere, I like to see as little of it as possible. Swing, seam and turn are one thing, indifferent bounce is quite another - IMO it takes very little skill to exploit, and taller bowlers obviously have the advantage.
Clearly South Africa, Australia, England, the subcontinent and West Indies are all producing mainly wickets that offer no seam or turn, nor uneven bounce mostly. West Indian pitches lack the bounce they used to have. New Zealand seem to be attempting to make-up for everyone else's lack of seam entirely by themselves.
It is a shame when everything becomes monotonous. 5-day Tests are good, but I hate seeing pitches that don't offer any seam-movement in England, I really do.
And some do give a damn about nothing but runs (ideally quick runs). Personally I can't stand that attitude.
Anyway, it rarely results in a load of draws, because when teams concede 550-600, their batsmen generally feel obliged to collapse, handing bowlers credit for "conquering difficult conditions" and ensuring a loss.
For me, the important thing is that all wickets are not the same. There will obviously be variations within a country and that, too, is part of the beauty of the spread of the game (for instance, I like the fact that Wantage Road and Sophia Gardens offer far more turn than most places in England).
These are the conditions I like to see more often than not in each country\region:
Subcontinent - slow, low, turning, breaking-up from the end of day three.
England, New Zealand and Zimbabwe - seam-movement for the first two days, ideally throughout the match. Not too much (and in some cases there is too much) but ideally hard-wearing grass that only offers seam-movement if you hit the seam perfectly.
West Indies, Australia and South Africa - wickets offering a bit more bounce than the subcontinent, but still some seam. Less than England or New Zealand, but some nonetheless. Eg. that like we recently saw at The 'Gabba.
I never like uneven bounce. On any wicket, anywhere, I like to see as little of it as possible. Swing, seam and turn are one thing, indifferent bounce is quite another - IMO it takes very little skill to exploit, and taller bowlers obviously have the advantage.
Clearly South Africa, Australia, England, the subcontinent and West Indies are all producing mainly wickets that offer no seam or turn, nor uneven bounce mostly. West Indian pitches lack the bounce they used to have. New Zealand seem to be attempting to make-up for everyone else's lack of seam entirely by themselves.
It is a shame when everything becomes monotonous. 5-day Tests are good, but I hate seeing pitches that don't offer any seam-movement in England, I really do.
Mark this down Richard because I'm with you on this one!!!!!
To put it simply the current direction in pitches means they have lost their teeth on Days 1 & 5 - they have been neutered & last too long as a batting surface........
I like to see all the variations you described, so long as they are not too low or slow, and there is alsways something there for both the batsman & the bowler to keep it a contest. It should not IMO become a war of attrition where there is no assistance to the bowlers and yet the batsmen can not score because of the pitch, as opposed to tight bowling & fielding!
I don't mind some variable bounce & carry so long as it is on Day 5 when the pitch has worn & breaking up, and it is primarily on the low side as opposed to those that take your head off on a forward defensive block!. I abhorr seeing some of the minefields with cracks on Day 1, and I am critical of any ball that dies after pitching b4 late on Day 3 or mid way Day 4.
I must admit I found the English pitches in the Home series v RSA quite ludicrous & I can not believe that the curators got away with taking England's bowling attack out of the game so effectively - I reckon the were RSA's secret weapon.
To put it simply the current direction in pitches means they have lost their teeth on Days 1 & 5 - they have been neutered & last too long as a batting surface........
I like to see all the variations you described, so long as they are not too low or slow, and there is alsways something there for both the batsman & the bowler to keep it a contest. It should not IMO become a war of attrition where there is no assistance to the bowlers and yet the batsmen can not score because of the pitch, as opposed to tight bowling & fielding!
I don't mind some variable bounce & carry so long as it is on Day 5 when the pitch has worn & breaking up, and it is primarily on the low side as opposed to those that take your head off on a forward defensive block!. I abhorr seeing some of the minefields with cracks on Day 1, and I am critical of any ball that dies after pitching b4 late on Day 3 or mid way Day 4.
I must admit I found the English pitches in the Home series v RSA quite ludicrous & I can not believe that the curators got away with taking England's bowling attack out of the game so effectively - I reckon the were RSA's secret weapon.
Craig said:
Cairns was a good pitch because it was prepared by the same bloke that looks after the wicket at The Gabba.
I didn't mind the SCG pitch for the 1st Test v Zimbabwe - a bit of grass on top, good firm surface & a bit of spin late in the match.
I think the pitch at the Gabba for the 1st Test in this series looked worse than it was so far as it's green top was concerned, and it would have been interesting to see how it would have played without the weather. Over recent times they seem to have come closest to the ideal posted earlier, but I can not understand why they have early Tests in regions still affected by weather.
this may sound a bit strange considering, but IMO these flat pitches are probably the best opportunities to beat the Aussies!
sure they can pile on the runs with their aggressive batting, but IMO if you can win the toss and bat you have a good chance at posting a high total to enable you to put them under pressure - particularly if you have variety in your bowling attack & have 5 regular bowling options.
IMO the Aussie weakness is that they do not have a regular 5th bowler option that offers enough variety - particularly in regard to slow medium or swing. As a result the Aussies have struggled when their main 4 bowlers have been unable to take the expected wickets, or they are depleted thru injury etc. Eg NZ at the WACA, India in India, England in The Ashes 5th Test, and now India at Adelaide.
Granted that the opposition did not bat first in all instances, but they were able to bat thru in their 1st innings to post good totals & wear the Aussie attack down & out of the game.
8D
sure they can pile on the runs with their aggressive batting, but IMO if you can win the toss and bat you have a good chance at posting a high total to enable you to put them under pressure - particularly if you have variety in your bowling attack & have 5 regular bowling options.
IMO the Aussie weakness is that they do not have a regular 5th bowler option that offers enough variety - particularly in regard to slow medium or swing. As a result the Aussies have struggled when their main 4 bowlers have been unable to take the expected wickets, or they are depleted thru injury etc. Eg NZ at the WACA, India in India, England in The Ashes 5th Test, and now India at Adelaide.
Granted that the opposition did not bat first in all instances, but they were able to bat thru in their 1st innings to post good totals & wear the Aussie attack down & out of the game.
8D
Mr Mxyzptlk
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v WI at St. John's.anzac said:
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
IMO the Aussie weakness is that they don't have a regular 3rd bowler who gets good figures consistently. If McGrath, Gillespie and Warne are all absent, God help them (eg at The MCG soon).anzac said:
I have long felt that you can beat the Aussies in any conditions - simply by playing better cricket than them. Green seamers - bowl them out cheaply if you bowl well. Trouble is, McGrath and Gillespie have the same chance. Spinning conditions have worked best - Sri Lanka and India have put the Aussie batsmen "in a spin" with turning wickets, and Warne has gone to pieces twice in India. Flat pitches can work too, as we saw in Adelaide and 2 years ago at The WACA, and at Eden Gardens; the Aussie batsmen can go to pieces in the face of not-especially-inspiring bowling like opposition teams regularly do against McGrath and Gillepsie. Just because they've just conceded a big total. It's amazing how many batsmen do that. India have bucked the trend in the last 2 Tests (and indeed in their previous one). I just hope a) it continues and b) others follow-suit.