English Ringers, mate!

[Craig]

Something that had been on my mind all day today about Kolpaks. When they signed are they actually barred from playing Test cricket by the ICC, or can a country still pick them if they want, but they choose not too?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Something that had been on my mind all day today about Kolpaks. When they signed are they actually barred from playing Test cricket by the ICC, or can a country still pick them if they want, but they choose not too?

Barred for the duration of their contracts, I believe, as they're technically registered as "local" players.

 

[Furball]

I'm pretty sure they could play for their national sides if they wanted, they'd just be exposing themselves to a breach of contract lawsuit.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm pretty sure they could play for their national sides if they wanted, they'd just be exposing themselves to a breach of contract lawsuit.

I think they'd have to give up their Kolpak status before being eligible as, I believe, players can't be registered as "locals" in more than one country. Harris and McLaren both gave away theirs once SA became interested (although in the case of the latter he also had to wait until Kent released him from his contract) and new Oz cap Ryan Harris had to abandon plans to play for Sussex as a local (he holds a GB passport) when QLD wouldn't offer him an overseas contract.

Think Darren Pattinson was technically registered as an overseas player for Vic this year too. Seems faintly perverse that Aussies are regarded as foreigners in their own FC tournament, but there it is.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Nonsense that 11 year-old kids can't play club cricket with men. If they are good enough and there are schemes in place that means that they get proper protection (as far as security goes), then I can't think of many good reasons why they shouldn't play.

I've played hockey with adults on Saturdays for the past 5/6 years (I'm 17 now) and it has been by far and away the thing that has helped me improve the most. I can only imagine it is the same with cricketr.

 

[Goughy]

Seems Im on an island with this 11 yr old playing cricket with men. Of course there should not be rules against it. Too many rules just make for a train wreck of a society but it is a terrible idea. 11 year olds should not play cricket with men though the idea of legislating that turns my stomach. Firstly it ruins it for the men and secondly it must be a **** standard of cricket and they would be better off elsewhere playing.

Its a terrible, terrible idea that has no winners but to make a rule is just ****ing stupid.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Seems Im on an island with this 11 yr old playing cricket with men. Of course there should not be rules against it. Too many rules just make for a train wreck of a society but it is a terrible idea. 11 year olds should not play cricket with men though the idea of legislating that turns my stomach. Firstly it ruins it for the men and secondly it must be a **** standard of cricket and they would be better off elsewhere playing.

Its a terrible, terrible idea that has no winners but to make a rule is just ****ing stupid.

I'm quite surprised that you've made both of those comments.

From what experience I've had, I'd guess that 11 year old kids would play at club 3rd XI standard, so it's hardly bringing it down, as in some cases, it can't really get a whole lot worse. I've seen some pretty good 11 year olds at any rate, I myself was probably better than quite a few of out 2nd XI when I was 11 (I'm gash now though ).

As for the idea of it ruining it for the men.. Care to explain?

 

[Goughy]

I'm quite surprised that you've made both of those comments.

From what experience I've had, I'd guess that 11 year old kids would play at club 3rd XI standard, so it's hardly bringing it down, as in some cases, it can't really get a whole lot worse. I've seen some pretty good 11 year olds at any rate, I myself was probably better than quite a few of out 2nd XI when I was 11 (I'm gash now though ).

As for the idea of it ruining it for the men.. Care to explain?

I dont buy that for a second. Unless freakish, an 11 yr old cannot compete against men. Ive seen some brilliant 11 yr olds and not one could play with men properly. In fact in SA 12 year olds at the school I was at could not play with 13 year olds no matter how good and they generally dont play with men until after school (ie 17/18 years old).

As for ruining it for the men, the most common gripe I hear from men at village standard is when a little boy comes out and everyone has to bowl donkey drops and it devalues the game and wastes everyones Saturday. Nothing annoys teams more than an opposition turning up with young boys in tow. Another wasted weekend. That has led to more casual weekend cricketers quitting that anything else I know.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I'm quite surprised that you've made both of those comments.

From what experience I've had, I'd guess that 11 year old kids would play at club 3rd XI standard, so it's hardly bringing it down, as in some cases, it can't really get a whole lot worse. I've seen some pretty good 11 year olds at any rate, I myself was probably better than quite a few of out 2nd XI when I was 11 (I'm gash now though ).

As for the idea of it ruining it for the men.. Care to explain?

Any players with half a modicum of talent will feel compromised by taking down a kid who is barely half as big as them.

 

[King Pietersen]

As for ruining it for the men, the most common gripe I hear from men at village standard is when a little boy comes out and everyone has to bowl donkey drops and it devalues the game and wastes everyones Saturday. Nothing annoys teams more than an opposition turning up with young boys in tow. Another wasted weekend. That has led to more casual weekend cricketers quitting that anything else I know.

I actually happen to agree with that. I played in a club game last season, and the opposition had some tiny little kid playing, can't have been much older than 11, and our bowlers decided to bowl pies at him, just ruined the feel of the game. I'm of the belief that if the team thinks it's unsafe for them to be facing Adult bowlers in a club game, they shouldn't be batting; the opposition shouldn't have to resort to bowling pies to suit your team selection. The standard of cricket I play is pretty poor generally, but it reached new lows that day.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm of the belief that if the team thinks it's unsafe for them to be facing Adult bowlers in a club game, they shouldn't be batting; the opposition shouldn't have to resort to bowling pies to suit your team selection. The standard of cricket I play is pretty poor generally, but it reached new lows that day.

I don't think you'll find anyone here arguing with that.

 

[Uppercut]

I dont buy that for a second. Unless freakish, an 11 yr old cannot compete against men. Ive seen some brilliant 11 yr olds and not one could play with men properly. In fact in SA 12 year olds at the school I was at could not play with 13 year olds no matter how good and they generally dont play with men until after school (ie 17/18 years old).

In my experience at least, this is 100% true. Check out some figures about the proportion of leading sportsmen born in the first half of the school year too- just being a few months older can make a huge difference at that age.

 

[four_or_six]

I dont buy that for a second. Unless freakish, an 11 yr old cannot compete against men. Ive seen some brilliant 11 yr olds and not one could play with men properly. In fact in SA 12 year olds at the school I was at could not play with 13 year olds no matter how good and they generally dont play with men until after school (ie 17/18 years old).

As for ruining it for the men, the most common gripe I hear from men at village standard is when a little boy comes out and everyone has to bowl donkey drops and it devalues the game and wastes everyones Saturday. Nothing annoys teams more than an opposition turning up with young boys in tow. Another wasted weekend. That has led to more casual weekend cricketers quitting that anything else I know.

Are they even allowed to field and then come in at no.11? That's what I remember from when I was a kid, when the team was short of 11 players one of the sons would join in. I remember some brilliant run-outs and a couple of epic last-wicket stands to seal a draw from that. Was brilliant.

 

[Jarquis]

In my experience at least, this is 100% true. Check out some figures about the proportion of leading sportsmen born in the first half of the school year too- just being a few months older can make a huge difference at that age.

Know of a link?

 

[Uppercut]

Know of a link?

No. It's taken from one of Ed Smith's books. Sorry about the shoddy referencing .

 

[Goughy]

Are they even allowed to field and then come in at no.11? That's what I remember from when I was a kid, when the team was short of 11 players one of the sons would join in. I remember some brilliant run-outs and a couple of epic last-wicket stands to seal a draw from that. Was brilliant.

No, within reason thats fine. Thats why Im against legislation preventing it. Im against most legislation where common sense should prevail. However, I dont like it when teams regularly rock up to games with a group of very young kids. Its not good for the kids and not good for the game.

I think, in general, that it is a bad idea but not something that should be outlawed but that is more a societal question in the UK than anything cricket related.

 

[Goughy]

No. It's taken from one of Ed Smith's books. Sorry about the shoddy referencing .

Actually, if I remember correctly in my non too sober state, it is from Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell referencing Ice Hockey players in Canada.

 

[Uppercut]

Actually, if I remember correctly in my non too sober state, it is from Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell referencing Ice Hockey players in Canada.

Yeah, Smith was just referencing a study done by someone else and that's where I came across it.

 

[Uppercut]

No, within reason thats fine. Thats why Im against legislation preventing it. Im against most legislation where common sense should prevail. However, I dont like it when teams regularly rock up to games with a group of very young kids. Its not good for the kids and not good for the game.

I think, in general, that it is a bad idea but not something that should be outlawed but that is more a societal question in the UK than anything cricket related.

I think I'm completely in agreement with you here. 11 year olds playing with adults is not ideal at all and it's rather annoying for all involved. But banning it is just bizarre. Taking Nanny State to its most ridiculous extremes.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I think, in general, that it is a bad idea but not something that should be outlawed but that is more a societal question in the UK than anything cricket related.

Which I think was my original point!

Also quite familiar with the Ice Hockey study and it is something I try to keep in mind when making my rep selections.