English Country "Franchises" - pick your teams

[Penguinissimo]

Even if this happened, it would kill off county grounds such as Hove.

There would be an overall reduction in the number of games due to the reduced number of counties. That reduced number of games would in turn be split between, say, 3 main bases - eg Southampton, Canterbury, Hove. So Hove would host something like 1 or 2 county championship games per year. On that basis, operating a cricket ground at Hove would be financially unsustainable. And the effect on the outgrounds - in Sussex's case Eastbourne, Horsham, Arundel - would be terminal.

Maybe I'm a reactionary old stick-in-the-mud, but I don't care. My county team has 170 years of rich history (albeit that it's not been marked by much success until recent times), I love the place, and I wouldn't want to throw it away in favour of a tacky IPL-clone model of franchises.

For these reasons, Penguinissimo, extremely highly though I rate very much of what you write, I think you're dead wrong about this one.

I can see that, but we're coming at it from different angles. Despite being an avid cricket fan, I see very little county cricket over the course of the season - just don't have the free time - and so I am thinking of the county game as essentially the source of players for the international side.

On this basis, having a small number of higher standard teams (preferably with no more than 1 or 2 players who are not eligible to play for England and with a requirement that at least 3 of the non-foreign players be under 24) would almost certainly prepare players better for the international game and also give greater guidance to the selectors as to who would be likely to succeed at that level.

As an added bonus, the "2nd XI" cricket, which is currently almost entirely irrelevant, would be of a much higher standard too - almost a division 2 of the "franchise league" which would be worth watching in its own right (well, at least as worth watching as county cricket is currently).

Problem is, turkeys will never vote for Christmas.

 

[Penguinissimo]

And if county cricket has to stay as it is, someone really has to get to grips with the problem of old-stagers playing on until they're in their late 30s. Players like Dominic Cork (who is one of my personal favourite cricketers) is essentially just taking up space in whatever team he plays for and denying youngsters a go - although currently at Hampshire, who seem better than most at trusting their young uns.

I can see the argument for bringing in top quality overseas players (and this is not to say that all the overseas players currently on show are top quality) for the youngsters to learn from and to drum up interest in the clubs, but how many promising young players have "retired" from county cricket without ever being given a chance to see how good they are?

 

[zaremba]

Yorkshire
Durham
Lancashire
Warwickshire
Leicestershire
Gloucestershire
Glamorgan
Surrey
Middlesex
Nottinghamshire

A perfect illustration of my point.

I'm sure you'll forgive my parochialism / short termism / laziness / incompetence / cluelessness but the thought of my county's extinction (or merger into Surrey) is not one that I find particularly attractive, to say the least.

I'd imagine that Hants and Kent supporters would think similarly.

As would (say) Lancashire supporters who found that their county was now either extinguished or subsumed within Yorkshire.

It may also be that, in refusing to countenance this kind of thing happening, the Boards of Sussex, Kent and Hants might be forgiven for their parochialism / short termism / laziness / incompetence / cluelessness also.

Personally, I don't want my turkey of a county to vote for Christmas.

 

[superkingdave]

A perfect illustration of my point.

I'm sure you'll forgive my parochialism / short termism / laziness / incompetence / cluelessness but the thought of my county's extinction (or merger into Surrey) is not one that I find particularly attractive, to say the least.

I'd imagine that Hants and Kent supporters would think similarly.

As would (say) Lancashire supporters who found that their county was now either extinguished or subsumed within Yorkshire.

It may also be that, in refusing to countenance this kind of thing happening, the Boards of Sussex, Kent and Hants might be forgiven for their parochialism / short termism / laziness / incompetence / cluelessness also.

Personally, I don't want my turkey of a county to vote for Christmas.

yeah, as an avid fan of county cricket, It's not something i'd want to happen. Just if it did happen which teams might be left.

I do think we could easily drop to 16 without losing much though. We can definitely lose Northants (i'm not sure whether i need a after that or not, i've never seen a Northants fan)

 

[wpdavid]

A perfect illustration of my point.

I'm sure you'll forgive my parochialism / short termism / laziness / incompetence / cluelessness but the thought of my county's extinction (or merger into Surrey) is not one that I find particularly attractive, to say the least.

I'd imagine that Hants and Kent supporters would think similarly.

As would Lancashire supporters who found that their county was now either extinguished or subsumed within Yorkshire.

It may also be that, in refusing to countenance this kind of thing happening, the Boards of Sussex, Kent and Hants might be forgiven for their parochialism / short termism / laziness / incompetence / cluelessness also.

Personally, I don't want my turkey of a county to vote for Christmas.

Very politely put. fwiw I was talking about the people running the counties rather than the long-suffering members, but point taken. I certainly didn't intend to libel my fellow CWers.

I know my previous point was massively generalising and I'm sure there are exceptions - counties who do actually manage to produce good players with something approaching regularity - but they just seem to be in a very small minority right now. Hence my comments.

 

[wpdavid]

I do think we could easily drop to 16 without losing much though. We can definitely lose Northants (i'm not sure whether i need a after that or not, i've never seen a Northants fan)

Matthew Engel is the only one I can think of.

It's a shame though. I'm old enough to remember Northants being a decent side with a number of players good enough to at least be considered for the national side. Ditto Leicestershire. But something's gone horribly wrong over the last decade or two.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Should just reduce it to Durham, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and scrape two teams from the rest.

Seriously though I think the divisional system is polarising the good and bad counties quite well. That at least gives some consistent quality cricket in the first division. I think the promotion/relegation needs to be reduced to one team ideally, otherwise you risk diluting the quality a little bit.

 

[zaremba]

Penguinissimo - I hear what you're saying about the old-stagers. I'm not sure what the obvious solution is, though, because it's legally problematic, to say the least, to restrict teams' ability to employ (or pick) players on the grounds of their age.

Wpdavid - no offence taken!

Scaly - I tend to agree with you.

Uppercut - interesting point re Welsh rugby. Am considering my response...

 

[Furball]

Do what they've done in South Africa.

Keep the County Championship, just relegate it to 2nd XI status.

6 regional sides contesting the country's First Class and List A competitions (possibly bring in Ireland and Scotland for the List A comp).

Let the counties continue the Twenty20 Cup, as it's their main source of income.

 

[dothestrand]

This is actually the model I'd like to see for county cricket, yet it'd never get the approval of the counties. A shame, it'd really drive up standards. At least try it with the P20.

So are we saying no Kolpaks/Centrally Contracted?

Key (Kent) (c)
Denly (Kent)
Crawley (Hants)
Joyce (Sussex)
Yardy (Sussex)
Jones (Kent) - unless you'll let me have Prior
Mascarenhas (Hants)
Martin-Jenkins (Sussex)
Dawson (Hants)
Tomlinson (Hants)
Joseph (Kent)

Think this team would struggle against most other 'franchises'.

 

[wpdavid]

This is actually the model I'd like to see for county cricket, yet it'd never get the approval of the counties. A shame, it'd really drive up standards. At least try it with the P20.

So are we saying no Kolpaks/Centrally Contracted?

Key (Kent) (c)
Denly (Kent)
Crawley (Hants)
Joyce (Sussex)
Yardy (Sussex)
Jones (Kent) - unless you'll let me have Prior
Mascarenhas (Hants)
Martin-Jenkins (Sussex)
Dawson (Hants)
Tomlinson (Hants)
Joseph (Kent)

Think this team would struggle against most other 'franchises'.

Tremlett might get a game for your side.

 

[Pothas]

Should just reduce it to Durham, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and scrape two teams from the rest.

Seriously though I think the divisional system is polarising the good and bad counties quite well. That at least gives some consistent quality cricket in the first division. I think the promotion/relegation needs to be reduced to one team ideally, otherwise you risk diluting the quality a little bit.

Yeah I hope that is happening, there are certainly some very poor counties emerging but the1'st division is not quite developig as I would hope. Agree with you in regards to promotion/relegation but at least it is not three anymore which was awful.