Englands Opening Batsman

[Jarquis]

. Moving any one of them to open would weaken the middle order, and would be a bad idea.
.

No it wouldn't seeing as they'd be replaced by Morgan in the middle order.

It's news to me that Swann opens at FC level, though.

He doesn't.

 

[Tendulkar_200*]

Welcome Sachin! that was a fine knock btw!!

You make a good point I said here last night that England's win yesterday was because of a freebie versus South Africa which they cannot expect against any of the other top teams!

Broad and Swann Opening the batting is as you say a joke that is not funny :P! Glenn Mcgrath has a Test 50 to his name and Dizzy had double hundred do you think Australia would have got them to open the batting?

Well South Africa pretty much choked in remarkable fashion, I am sure the English are grateful that South Africa pressed the self destruction button

Tbh I think England should be more concerned about their general team. They placed a lot of emphasis on fitness as Flower has said, but what about taking wickets and runs? They missed a trick by excluding Samit Patel for fitness reasons. Having said, I don't think this England team is that strong in ODI format.

 

[Dhoni_fan]

Well South Africa pretty much choked in remarkable fashion, I am sure the English are grateful that South Africa pressed the self destruction button

Tbh I think England should be more concerned about their general team. They placed a lot of emphasis on fitness as Flower has said, but what about taking wickets and runs? They missed a trick by excluding Samit Patel for fitness reasons. Having said, I don't think this England team is that strong in ODI format.

You are spot on with fitness versus wickets and runs!

I love my tennis and I remember once a commentator said "Is anyone faster around the court than Rafael Nadal".

The other commentator said "we have found one player from China, he is lightning fast, the problem is he doesn’t know what to do when he gets to the ball"

That pretty much sums up England in ODI cricket right now to be frank.

 

[Jacknife]

Well South Africa pretty much choked in remarkable fashion, I am sure the English are grateful that South Africa pressed the self destruction button

Tbh I think England should be more concerned about their general team. They placed a lot of emphasis on fitness as Flower has said, but what about taking wickets and runs? They missed a trick by excluding Samit Patel for fitness reasons. Having said, I don't think this England team is that strong in ODI format.

Eh? They've scored plenty of runs and been let down especially by a bit of poor death bowling and the fact they played on some ridiculously flat wickets.
As far as Patel, his coach Newell, when interviewed was in agreement with Flower, saying that he's not up to the required fitness level for playing international cricket,especially in the sub continent, He has also just got married in the winter and apparently put a load more weight on.
In the SA game, England are grateful they bowled very well and put the opposition under pressure to cause mistakes, which they did.

 

[Jacknife]

You are spot on with fitness versus wickets and runs!

I love my tennis and I remember once a commentator said "Is anyone faster around the court than Rafael Nadal".

The other commentator said "we have found one player from China, he is lightning fast, the problem is he doesn’t know what to do when he gets to the ball"

That pretty much sums up England in ODI cricket right now to be frank.

Well to be frank what your saying is a load of rubbish and is one of your predicable digs at the England team.
Who on the England team can't play cricket and who is just there for fitness.You'll find it's not just England that takes fitness seriously, Australia and SA are really fit sides. In fact it was the Australian great sides that started the standards in high level of fitness.

 

[Tendulkar_200*]

Eh? They've scored plenty of runs and been let down especially by a bit of poor death bowling and the fact they played on some ridiculously flat wickets.
As far as Patel, his coach Newell, when interviewed was in agreement with Flower, saying that he's not up to the required fitness level for playing international cricket,especially in the sub continent, He has also just got married in the winter and apparently put a load more weight on.
In the SA game, England are grateful they bowled very well and put the opposition under pressure to cause mistakes, which they did.

Hi Jacknife,

I think fitness is overrated, being match fit is enough. Look at Jesse Ryder? Talent is talent regardless. Samit Patel has been doing the business in county cricket for a while, would have been a useful player. It's true they have scored runs and taken wickets, but not in crucial situations. I think the england players will struggle to compete when they face top teams. There are too many players in the team who are not in form or of sufficient quality. Collingwood, Luke Wright e.t.c Not to mention Anderson will not be able to find much swing which negates his strength. All in all, I can see why England are not serious contenders for this world cup.

I would put India and Australia as favourites, followed by Sri Lanka.

 

[Dhoni_fan]

Well to be frank what your saying is a load of rubbish and is one of your predicable digs at the England team.
Who on the England team can't play cricket and who is just there for fitness.You'll find it's not just England that takes fitness seriously, Australia and SA are really fit sides. In fact it was the Australian great sides that started the standards in high level of fitness.

Jacknife fitness as Tony Greig once said in Cricket is not important he said to be a spin bowler you dont need to be some great athelete just be able to turn your arm over!

Samit Patel as Sachin says, is a decent player for England but he got dropped for being too fat.

Anderson to be fair up until yesterday seemed like he was only gettin a gig because he his seen as a fit player who can field well for a bowler.

It certainly wasnt his bowling that was keeping him in the team when he was getting spanked for at 70-90 runs in the 1st 3 games even against minnows.

 

[Howe_zat]

Eh? They've scored plenty of runs and been let down especially by a bit of poor death bowling and the fact they played on some ridiculously flat wickets.
As far as Patel, his coach Newell, when interviewed was in agreement with Flower, saying that he's not up to the required fitness level for playing international cricket,especially in the sub continent, He has also just got married in the winter and apparently put a load more weight on.
In the SA game, England are grateful they bowled very well and put the opposition under pressure to cause mistakes, which they did.

"A bit of poor bowling" something of an understatement. Until yesterday we were talking about very serious problems with the bowling, Anderson in particular lost the plot completely in the first three matches. And the fielding screwed them as much as anything, particularly against Ireland. Agreed with you on the SA match.

As for Samit Patel, I get the impression his exclusion is mostly attitude. If he can't be arsed just to spend some time in the gym with the rest of them - for a frickin' World Cup place, no less - I don't really want a guy like that on the team. Plus he's not exactly been hammering down the door for selection recently, had a pretty poor CB40 if I remember correctly.

 

[Jacknife]

Hi Jacknife,

I think fitness is overrated. Look at Jesse Ryder? Talent is talent regardless. Samit Patel has been doing the business in county cricket for a while, would have been a useful player. It's true they have scored runs and taken wickets, but not in crucial situations. I think the england players will struggle to compete when they face top teams. There are too many players in the team who are not in form or of sufficient quality. Collingwood, Luke Wright e.t.c Not to mention Anderson will not be able to find much swing which negates his strength. All in all, I can see why England are not serious contenders for this world cup.

I would put India and Australia as favourites, followed by Sri Lanka.

Mate, the 2 top sides England have faced they beat and tied, so we can take from that, in the next round they can beat anyone on there day but have been really inconsistent.
As far as fitness, you are taking it as because Ryder is over weight he is not fit, he may very well be fit. Patel has not passed the levels set by Flower and like I said before, his coach at Notts, believes he should be doing far more than he is, fitness wise and said Patel has made no efforts to even get to a decent level of fitness and that proved he's not bothered about playing for England. I agree Patel would have been a useful player, but I also respect Flowers decision on fitness.
Being fit can add to the performance of the team, you only have to look in England's case to the Ashes and the T20 WC and that can give your team the extra .Like I said to play international cricket there has to be a level of fitness, for all players, especially in the field and when batting a long time.
I agree that England are not favorites at all, but I also know, what this team can do and I'm not counting them out by no means.

 

[Jacknife]

"A bit of poor bowling" something of an understatement. Until yesterday we were talking about very serious problems with the bowling, Anderson in particular lost the plot completely in the first three matches. And the fielding screwed them as much as anything, particularly against Ireland. Agreed with you on the SA match.

As for Samit Patel, I get the impression his exclusion is mostly attitude. If he can't be arsed just to spend some time in the gym with the rest of them - for a frickin' World Cup place, no less - I don't really want a guy like that on the team. Plus he's not exactly been hammering down the door for selection recently, had a pretty poor CB40 if I remember correctly.

No, i said a bit of poor death bowling because in all the games they've started all right and got wickets, then in the last 20 the bowing standard had been poor, but not all the bowlers have been guilty of this, maybe I could have said really poor. Like you, the fielding as been the main problem and was the biggest factor in the associate games going the way the did. Said the same about Patel.

 

[Jacknife]

Jacknife fitness as Tony Greig once said in Cricket is not important he said to be a spin bowler you dont need to be some great athelete just be able to turn your arm over!

Samit Patel as Sachin says, is a decent player for England but he got dropped for being too fat.

Anderson to be fair up until yesterday seemed like he was only gettin a gig because he his seen as a fit player who can field well for a bowler.

It certainly wasnt his bowling that was keeping him in the team when he was getting spanked for at 70-90 runs in the 1st 3 games even against minnows.

I watch a lot of County Cricket and Patel has been average at best this season. Like Howe Zat said it's a attitude thing with Patel, he has made no effort to get fit and don't get me wrong you can be overweight and still be fit, but Patel appeared to have put even more weight on last year. Flower would love to have Patel in the team, but he hasn't shown him, he even wants to play for England.
Anderson is in the team because he is a very good bowler, who had a few very poor games, but the team stuck with him because they knew what he can do and has been doing for a few years and he repaid them yesterday. Long gone are the days, you get dropped for a few bad performances because players under threat of been dropped all the time, play worse.

 

[xanderbiscuits]

total cricket is the answer

forget bringing morgan into the squad, bring back bumble

he'll show the young whipper snappers how it's meant to be done. I personally think it would be amazing to see him bat through the 50 overs and end up 37 not out.

Then in the field put him in long off/long on and he can show the rest of the team how to catch the dollies

That's plan A, but if he can't get out of his commentating duties then my plan B would be opening with Bell and leaving everyone else where they are and have been performing.

 

[Woodster]

Yes on the Samit Patel issue, he really has portrayed a lack of appetite (for once) to get fit. Anyone that shows such a lack of dedication in attaining certain fitness targets that have clearly been set for them do not, imo, warrant a place in the side. Not just because of the fitness issue, although that is a big factor, but it just says to me that if things were getting tough in the middle, they would invariably take the easy option out of there, and not be willing to work hard and do the ugly yards for the team.

Back to the thread heading, personally before the W/C started I was in favour of Trott opening, and while I don't think a promotion to open would upset his current rhythm, it may be seen as a risk not worth taking. Therefore for me it has to Bell, if the opposition open with spin he's very adept at countering that, plus with pace on the ball he has all the tools to expose the fielding restrictions in his own perfectly orthodox fashion.

All options are worth considering, but I would quickly discard ideas such as Swann and Broad. The best time to bat is against the new ball in the sub-continent, and one of our more accomplished performers deserve the opportunity to get us off to a good start. Prior and Bopara would be looked to to give the side a bit of a kickstart, but I feel they are more effective in the middle order, personally.

 

[Burgey]

Bell.

England are going deep in this tourney now. After the laughable Ireland loss they've tied with India and beaten SA, two of the pre-post favourites.

Bell is more likely to pierce the gaps at the top I'd reckon. Someone like Swann or Broad might come off but I'd back, say, Lee or Tait, to fancy knocking them over with sheer pace. Bell less so IMO.

 

[salman85]

Going with Bell would be the safer choice,but surely thinking out of the box in such a tournament can reap you greater benefits?

More Risk.More Return.
Less Risk.Less Return.

Basic Finance

 

[Arjun]

Luke Wright, maybe? Not as out of the box as Broad or Swann, while not as assured as a proper opener, but the best in between. A more productive option than Yardy and Bopara, while the proper middle-order batsmen stay in their positions. The Greatbatch/Sanath/Kalu option shouldn't be ruled out at all.

 

[marc71178]

Losing KP means we have to bring in a proper batsman, as we're already carrying enough passengers.

Although Wright hasn't let us down in this world cup as yet, that proper batsman has to be Morgan, with an associated reshuffling of the order.

Bell's had success at the top in the past, and is possibly as well equipped as anyone in the squad to finding the gaps with his classical strokeplay.

 

[Burgey]

Going with Bell would be the safer choice,but surely thinking out of the box in such a tournament can reap you greater benefits?

More Risk.More Return.
Less Risk.Less Return.

Basic Finance

If that is the case then India should open with Harbhajan and Australia with Johnson.

 

[Howe_zat]

Arjun - I agree that Wright would make sense in theory but the truth is he's just not good enough. He shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, let alone opening the batting. Comparing him to Greatbach or Jayasuria just doesn't make sense.

 

[TT Boy]

Arjun - I agree that Wright would make sense in theory but the truth is he's just not good enough. He shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, let alone opening the batting. Comparing him to Greatbach or Jayasuria just doesn't make sense.

Arjun likes "Big Six". That Luke Wright doesn't hit many sixes, let alone "Big Six" is beside the point.