England's openers at Headingley.

[luckyeddie]

I wonder why that may be? (cough) Harmison at number 2 in the World

The day the temporarily not-so-wayward one takes 0-100, he'll be back

 

[Loony BoB]

I'll be optimistic and hope that we see him next week, then.

 

[badgerhair]

Welcome to CW.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a Giles fan. However, I know a bit about cricket, having watched and studied the game for nearly 40 years.

I don't think that foot outside leg line would have been a decision Giles took on his own (certainly not on this occasion) - furthermore, under the circumstances which prevailed at the time it was absolutely perfect tactics. The one thing you never ever do with Nathan Astle or Chris Cairns is give them room to free their arms unless you have fielders 20 rows back.

I too hold no brief for Giles. However, what he bowled on day four wasn't the deliberate starvation of the Stop Tendulkar Scoring tour. It was semi-attacking, in that he pitched quite a few which would have threatened lbw if they'd been arm balls, and was trying to get some of the batsmen to try playing him. But keeping Astle and Cairns as quiet as possible has never been a bad idea.

I don't think he bowled Vettori off the park, though. It may have been Giles's best spell in ages, but it was no more than you're entitled to expect from someone alleging that he's a Test-class spin bowler, and I don't think Vettori was significantly worse. One ought to take into account the fact that Hussain and Thorpe are considerably better batsmen than Styris and McMillan.

Even so,

When are we going to uncover a really good spinner who will be properly looked after and not taken off at the first excuse?

was the question, and Giles's performance on Sunday does not answer it.

If that's what there is, then it will have to do, but I too wish there was something better.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

I don't think he bowled Vettori off the park, though. It may have been Giles's best spell in ages, but it was no more than you're entitled to expect from someone alleging that he's a Test-class spin bowler, and I don't think Vettori was significantly worse. One ought to take into account the fact that Hussain and Thorpe are considerably better batsmen than Styris and McMillan.

Of course, I wasn't taking into account the standard of the batsmen. It was a judgment call based upon, I suppose, the mental state of the two bowlers.
Probably because Giles got on top very quickly, his dander was up. Vettori was instantly smacked off his length in the second innings then comfortably knurdled for the rest of the game. The drought continues - and it shows.

 

[Craig]

IMO Vaughan and Trescothick. Vaughan just gets it by the length of my bike tyre tube since he is captain and this where he usually bats.

If Hussain plays it should look like this:

ME Trescothick
*MP Vaughan
MA Butcher
AJ Strauss
N Hussain
GP Thorpe
A Flintoff
+GO Jones
SP Jones
M Hoggard
SP Harmison

Giles is the unlucky man to miss out though even though, before Marc tell's me, Giles did fullfill his role to a tee.

If Hussain doesnt...

ME Trescothick
*MP Vaughan
MA Butcher
AJ Strauss
GP Thorpe
A Flintoff
+GO Jones
AF Giles
SP Jones
M Hoggard
SP Harmison

The first one looks a lot more balanced and one I would go for when Hussain retires.

Kevin Pietersen IMO is just ahead in the race with Paul Collingwood for Thorpe's spot. It depends on who they want.

Stuart Law has about as much chance of playing for England as Lativa has of winning Euro 2004.

 

[marc71178]

So Thorpe at 6 then Craig?

People think he should be moving up the order, not down!

 

[PY]

But all the people above him need to be higher to have their impact on the game whereas Thorpe, as shown in Caribbean, can have an impact with the tail because he has the ability knock the ball aorund so he still keeps the strike.

Unless of course you whack Trescothick down at six (not something I'm fully against) and hope he can do what Gilly does for Australia and take the game away from teams when 4/5/6 wickets have gone down.

 

[luckyeddie]

But all the people above him need to be higher to have their impact on the game whereas Thorpe, as shown in Caribbean, can have an impact with the tail because he has the ability knock the ball aorund so he still keeps the strike.

Unless of course you whack Trescothick down at six (not something I'm fully against) and hope he can do what Gilly does for Australia and take the game away from teams when 4/5/6 wickets have gone down.

I disagree.

This calls for a completely radical approach to the game, (one you would expect from a fear-nothing, revolutionary, free-thinking person like me) and I advocate playing three openers (Trescothick can bat at one and a half). That way, everyone can retain their normal batting position.

We can even move Flintoff up to four and threequarters if the situation demands.

 

[PY]

You forgotten to take your pills again Eddie?

 

[Gaijin-san]

2. We may never see Rik again

Yeah, where the hell is Rik? I was wondering that yesterday.

 

[tooextracool]

I've actually gone for Trescothick and Vaughan - for a start, it's at Vaughan's home ground, so I would put him in at the top, and Trescothick is for me the immovable one of the 3.

why exactly would you do that? we all know of trescothicks weakness against the swinging ball....i wouldnt have him opening the batting at all let alone on the seamer friendly wicket at headingly.
personally i think theres 1 opener out of the lot in strauss....ideally vaughan should be batting at 3 IMO and tresco(although u would prefer him out of the side) should bat at 6. but since we dont have another regular opener i would go for vaughan and strauss not only because they are technically better against the new ball but also because they maintain the right and left hand combination.

 

[masterblaster]

Anybody actually think that Mark Butcher might be left out for Headingly?

Granted he's a fine player, but with Strauss and Nasser doing so well and Butcher not doing as well as he would've liked, maybe Butcher gets left out?

 

[Craig]

So Thorpe at 6 then Craig?

People think he should be moving up the order, not down!

So Thorpe at 4 or 5, and Strauss at 6?

 

[Craig]

Anybody actually think that Mark Butcher might be left out for Headingly?

Granted he's a fine player, but with Strauss and Nasser doing so well and Butcher not doing as well as he would've liked, maybe Butcher gets left out?

About as much chance as Sachin Tendulkar is going to be dropped by India.

 

[Andre]

Anybody actually think that Mark Butcher might be left out for Headingly?

Granted he's a fine player, but with Strauss and Nasser doing so well and Butcher not doing as well as he would've liked, maybe Butcher gets left out?

No. Butcher has had one bad match.

For a man who has campaigned against people attacking others for brining up Sachin's low run of scores, I'm suprised at your short-sightedness.

 

[masterblaster]

I think I may have been misunderstood.

I dont want Butcher to get dropped myself, he's one of my favorite English players and I've supported Butcher for a long time.

I was just stating fact without opinion really. I was just asking some people who are more in touch with the English game that IF there was a CHANCE in Butcher getting 'left out' for the next game.

I never made the call by the way.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Craig]

I think I may have been misunderstood.

I dont want Butcher to get dropped myself, he's one of my favorite English players and I've supported Butcher for a long time.

I was just stating fact without opinion really. I was just asking some people who are more in touch with the English game that IF there was a CHANCE in Butcher getting 'left out' for the next game.

I never made the call by the way.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I understood you perfectly.

That is why I said he has about as much chance of being left out as West Indies dropping Brian Lara or India dropping SRT (basically 0%).

 

[Andre]

I think I may have been misunderstood.

I dont want Butcher to get dropped myself, he's one of my favorite English players and I've supported Butcher for a long time.

I was just stating fact without opinion really. I was just asking some people who are more in touch with the English game that IF there was a CHANCE in Butcher getting 'left out' for the next game.

I never made the call by the way.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Fair enough - seems like we both just got our wires crossed mate

 

[tooextracool]

But all the people above him need to be higher to have their impact on the game whereas Thorpe, as shown in Caribbean, can have an impact with the tail because he has the ability knock the ball aorund so he still keeps the strike.

Unless of course you whack Trescothick down at six (not something I'm fully against) and hope he can do what Gilly does for Australia and take the game away from teams when 4/5/6 wickets have gone down.

you dont bat your best batsman at 6...ideally thorpe should bat at 4 but since hussain has booked himself that spot 5 seems alright. for headingly i think this would be the right order,assuming hussain does play:

vaughan
strauss
butcher
hussain
thorpe
trescothick
flintoff
jones
hoggard
jones
harmison

 

[PY]

I think I may have been misunderstood.

I dont want Butcher to get dropped myself, he's one of my favorite English players and I've supported Butcher for a long time.

I was just stating fact without opinion really. I was just asking some people who are more in touch with the English game that IF there was a CHANCE in Butcher getting 'left out' for the next game.

I never made the call by the way.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Total calamity in my book if it happened.

He's been a pretty damn consistent performer for 3 years now and I reckon he's earned his odd bad game. I'll be bleating (no pun intended) if he gets dropped for rest of New Zealand series.