England thread

[honestbharani]

He’s expected to play on Saturday.

I reckon, reading between the lines, he could have played yesterday and they decided not to risk him, which worked out well.

And yeah I know some folk will say, but Brook played well. And he did but aside from the general butterfly effect, Stokes in a tense chase is pretty good, so I’ve heard. Ah well.

He is not gonna bowl though, is he? Then you are still left with 4 bowlers plus Livingstone and Root. Not the worst, but I would still see if I can get in Moeen in that case. Even ahead of Livingstone.

 

[GIMH]

He is not gonna bowl though, is he? Then you are still left with 4 bowlers plus Livingstone and Root. Not the worst, but I would still see if I can get in Moeen in that case. Even ahead of Livingstone.

This is the dilemma now with the squad we’ve picked. Either Stokes comes in for Brook or he comes in for a bowler. If he comes in for Brook then we have to feasibly keep at least one of Woakes and Curran in the side. Unless it’s a rank turner I don’t see why you’d bring Moeen in for either of them, and Livingstone is for me a better option with both bat and ball now.

And even if it is a turner, then ten from LL and Root will be no problem.

I think just YOLO. Have proper bats down to seven (I’m counting LL as a proper bat, okay he’s not top order but he’s more of a batsman than Woakes and Curran) and then four frontline bowlers you can trust. Granted we can’t be sure we can trust Atkinson yet, but.

 

[honestbharani]

This is the dilemma now with the squad we’ve picked. Either Stokes comes in for Brook or he comes in for a bowler. If he comes in for Brook then we have to feasibly keep at least one of Woakes and Curran in the side. Unless it’s a rank turner I don’t see why you’d bring Moeen in for either of them, and Livingstone is for me a better option with both bat and ball now.

And even if it is a turner, then ten from LL and Root will be no problem.

I think just YOLO. Have proper bats down to seven (I’m counting LL as a proper bat, okay he’s not top order but he’s more of a batsman than Woakes and Curran) and then four frontline bowlers you can trust. Granted we can’t be sure we can trust Atkinson yet, but.

Yeah, you and I only differ on the #7 slot. But I suppose we both see the make up of the side to be similar. I actually rate Moeen a bit more as an offie than most do and his hitting might be useful at 7. But fair enough if you see LL as better in both disciplines. I see lot less of these guys than you do.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Bairstow
Malan
Root
Stokes
Brook
Buttler
Livingstone
Rashid
Wood
Atkinson
Topley

Wouldn't mind this (though I still don't have a good grasp of how good Atkinson is). Willey if they don't wanna risk him.

 

[GIMH]

Wouldn't mind this (though I still don't have a good grasp of how good Atkinson is). Willey if they don't wanna risk him.

You haven’t formed an opinion on Atkinson from his 33 List A overs?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

You haven’t formed an opinion on Atkinson from his 33 List A overs?

Usually takes me at least 38.

 

[GIMH]

Usually takes me at least 38.

Hopefully he opens the bowling on Saturday then. If so can you report back to me after his 5th over

 

[Zinzan]

I said before the comp started, I think England's bowling is ordinary. Topley I rate, Woakes, Willey and Curran are ordinary 50 over bowlers (Curran more suited to T20s), Rashid is a good spinner without being outstanding, and Wood - who can be great on his day - is hit and miss.

Really feels like a team who believe their own hype, and just aren't quite as good as many of their fan-base think.

Not discounting them entirely making the top 4, but think it's unlikely and they most definitely look nowhere near the 2nd best team after India.

 

[TheJediBrah]

England's ODI bowling has been ordinary the last 10 years, briefly papered-over by having Jofra in good form ~2018-2019

Even when they were top of the game in the late 2010s it was built on batting, making as many runs as possible on flat decks and usually it was enough despite their lack of bowling

 

[GIMH]

England's ODI bowling has been ordinary the last 10 years, briefly papered-over by having Jofra in good form ~2018-2019

Even when they were top of the game in the late 2010s it was built on batting, making as many runs as possible on flat decks and usually it was enough despite their lack of bowling

This ignores how good Plunkett, Woakes and Rashid were in that period. But there is some semblance of truth to it

 

[loterry1994]

England's ODI bowling has been ordinary the last 10 years, briefly papered-over by having Jofra in good form ~2018-2019

Even when they were top of the game in the late 2010s it was built on batting, making as many runs as possible on flat decks and usually it was enough despite their lack of bowling

Yeah them loading up their batting and firepower from the top down to like 9 is probably their biggest factor to their shorter format success. They’ve also have a large group of players to pick from that can come in and do the job in odis and t20s this wasn’t the case in 2015 and before. Their batting has definitely been their strongest suit the teams coming in and facing them know they needed better than par scores to beat them the last 5-6 years

 

[GIMH]

Yeah them loading up their batting and firepower from the top down to like 9 is probably their biggest factor to their shorter format success. They’ve also have a large group of players to pick from that can come in and do the job in odis and t20s this wasn’t the case in 2015 and before. Their batting has definitely been their strongest suit the teams coming in and facing them know they needed better than par scores to beat them the last 5-6 years

The positive thing is that, if we do crash and burn at this WC, I don’t have long term worries. There’s a lot of options in the queue, @grecian reeled off a few middle order options on Sunday.

My tip is Zak Crawley to be the captain at the next ODI WC (assuming there is one)

If the format survives then we do need to do something about the lack of 50 over games for our players - not a problem unique to England of course.

 

[Molehill]

If the format survives then we do need to do something about the lack of 50 over games for our players - not a problem unique to England of course.

There seems to be a few suggesting that we remove bilateral series and only play ODI's at World Cups. These will of course be the same people complaining about the poor prep when we get knocked out at an early stage!!

 

[loterry1994]

There seems to be a few suggesting that we remove bilateral series and only play ODI's at World Cups. These will of course be the same people complaining about the poor prep when we get knocked out at an early stage!!

You need it the other way around and take out t20 bilateral series just have World Cup and more odi series. Teams rarely play their fills strength squads even more in t20s. That’s why I don’t put too much into individual icc rankings

 

[GIMH]

You need it the other way around and take out t20 bilateral series just have World Cup and more odi series. Teams rarely play their fills strength squads even more in t20s. That’s why I don’t put too much into individual icc rankings

Just go back to a token T20 before the ODI series

 

[Molehill]

You need it the other way around and take out t20 bilateral series just have World Cup and more odi series. Teams rarely play their fills strength squads even more in t20s. That’s why I don’t put too much into individual icc rankings

I think we still have a pretty good idea which teams are strong. But having just come off a decent performance against NZ, it's been somewhat baffling seeing this England side perform so meekly thus far. I know we had concerns with the bowlers, but other than one Malan ton, the batting has not really been up to scratch. They're certainly not out of it though (especially with Pakistan/Australia's NRR being so poor).

 

[Zinzan]

You need it the other way around and take out t20 bilateral series just have World Cup and more odi series. Teams rarely play their fills strength squads even more in t20s. That’s why I don’t put too much into individual icc rankings

Yeah, tend to agree with this, especially with the multiple T20 comps around the world.

At least between a WC players could still get a lot of domestic/club/professional T20 games, whereas if you did it the other way around international players would likely only play 50 over cricket every 4 years which in theory should detract from the quality of the cricket.

 

[GIMH]

I think we still have a pretty good idea which teams are strong. But having just come off a decent performance against NZ, it's been somewhat baffling seeing this England side perform so meekly thus far. I know we had concerns with the bowlers, but other than one Malan ton, the batting has not really been up to scratch. They're certainly not out of it though (especially with Pakistan/Australia's NRR being so poor).

Root has two 70-80 scores, Bairstow played a good innings V Bangas and Brook played a good knock on Sunday. The problem is that they haven’t all fired at once. And I’m not remotely worried about Jos

 

[Molehill]

Root has two 70-80 scores, Bairstow played a good innings V Bangas and Brook played a good knock on Sunday. The problem is that they haven’t all fired at once. And I’m not remotely worried about Jos

I admire your optimism, but at what point do you become worried? When they mathematically can't qualify?

 

[Flem274*]

This ignores how good Plunkett, Woakes and Rashid were in that period. But there is some semblance of truth to it

Yeah I always liked Woakes in ODIs but the jury was out on Plunkett and Wood for a fair while there and then they showed up and performed properly. Archer entering the side added some real steel to the attack too.

They weren't the best attack on paper but there's no real shame in that. 2019 had some monstrous attacks.

The only thing you said that worries me is you're not confident we'll ever have another ODI World Cup