England test tour of Pakistan December 2022

[Daemon]

We haven’t shown enough appreciation for the short ball tactic first up. Got wickets and probably played a part in roughing the ball up for reverse.

I mean, imagine formulating a plan which involves not giving the new ball to Anderson and actually pulling it off. Awesome.

 

[Howe_zat]

We haven’t shown enough appreciation for the short ball tactic first up. Got wickets and probably played a part in roughing the ball up for reverse.

I mean, imagine formulating a plan which involves not giving the new ball to Anderson and actually pulling it off. Awesome.

That was honestly the most impressive bit for me, except for some of the day 1 stuff. Especially the leadership from Stokes to come out and take it all on himself, and ending up getting Babar Azam out with it.

 

[TheGreasiest]

So there I was, barbecue sauce on my tiddies, watching such a great finish unfold on a dead pitch. Wow!

 

[Sunil1z]

Is this the greatest performance by a team suffering from diarrhoea?

 

[Shady Slim]

I mean... it's a good post? England were fantastic on all but the second day.

haha im just talking about the post hoc lauding of where they declared

 

[Howe_zat]

haha im just talking about the post hoc lauding of where they declared

Yeah that part's a bit ropey I guess. England didn't really incentivise Pakistan to attack much, they actually gave Pakistan a bit too much time to shut up shop in the morning when the ball was reversing, and still have time to get into a position to win (twice!)

Though the key takeaway is still how that sort of call doesn't really matter much if your game is good enough and England were pretty much terrific in that 4th innings, including attitude.

 

[Shady Slim]

Yeah that part's a bit ropey I guess. England didn't really incentivise Pakistan to attack much, they actually gave Pakistan a bit too much time to shut up shop in the morning when the ball was reversing, and still have time to get into a position to win (twice!)

Though the key takeaway is still how that sort of call doesn't really matter much if your game is good enough and England were pretty much terrific in that 4th innings, including attitude.

yeah bingo
as i said before, england came out after tea and especially robinson with the dawg in them while pak came out unreasonably timid, especially given that the pak victory was arguably (and definitely with the bookies) the outcome on the cards. match was a huge win for positive cricket, putting aside all the ”bazball” stuff, positive as in coming out after tea with the desire to get the W

 

[Shady Slim]

not to get all weird but what a privilege to be able on the other side of the world to watch live. only thirty or so years ago i’d be reading about it in the paper or whatever on my way to work, understanding it must’ve been a cracker but never truly knowing for sure what it was like
kudos to the english, but also to pakistan’s final pair with the bat as well as the good people of pakistan pak fans who were cheering their lads with every block. test cricket is as close as we come to perfection…

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

not to get all weird but what a privilege to be able on the other side of the world to watch live. only thirty or so years ago i’d be reading about it in the paper or whatever on my way to work,

I second this. Although given the time zones, I really only got to watch the first session and a bit and sadly missed out on the denouement, but at one stage I had the choice of Aus/WI and Pak/Eng Test matches... which was lovely.

 

[slow deck]

i haven't given enough credit to England.

To me England are proof that test cricket is essentially a creative and tactical and mental game. A commentator earlier in the year spoke about how England were objectively a worse team than New Zealand. A simple look at the batting averages of the respective sides proves this, on paper at least. Pakistan's top 6 numerically is also drastically superior to England's. (i know Pak pitches play a role in this and that they are probably more even). But it doesn't matter when you have a captain like Stokes.

The wonderful thing about England's approach and the captaincy of someone like Stokes, is that he is showing that a positive mindset, combined with innovative approaches to tactics, field placement, strategy - are enough to get you wins. I haven't watched much Peaky Blinders but i remember someone said that the main character in that show was someone who always knew the right moves to make at the right time. Stokes is probably the closest thing cricket has to that.

I thought that the declaration was foolish and too easy a target. But I wouldn't put it past Stokes and McCullum to have understood that it was a better idea against a team like Pakistan to go slightly under than over. Half the reason this England side is intimidating to me is their ability to out-think the opposition.

Do people think Pakistan can get any results in this series without completely changing personnel (captain, coach, selector, pitches)? I am pretty doubtful after this result and Pakistan's obvious mental fragility.

 

[jcas0167]

yeah bingo
as i said before, england came out after tea and especially robinson with the dawg in them while pak came out unreasonably timid, especially given that the pak victory was arguably (and definitely with the bookies) the outcome on the cards. match was a huge win for positive cricket, putting aside all the ”bazball” stuff, positive as in coming out after tea with the desire to get the W

Who knows what difference it made but I was impressed how Stokes gathered the players before they left the field for the tea break after they'd just had that LBW overturned and Pope had dropped a catch. They certainly came out firing after the break. And yes, great to be able to watch this series live from Australasia (I'm NZ based) previously might have seen some highlights on the news.

 

[Spark]

Babar is obviously a fantastic batsman but he has to be one of the softest cricketers to lead a team of this stature in ages. Absolutely no game sense or initiative at all.

 

[trundler]

He's a soft batsman too tbh

 

[Daemon]

Babar is obviously a fantastic batsman but he has to be one of the softest cricketers to lead a team of this stature in ages. Absolutely no game sense or initiative at all.

Remember when he opted for the new ball a few overs after it started reversing against Aus.

 

[Bahseph]

The mindset that England have is a great example of playing to your strengths IMHO. Too often teams will try and find players that fit a mould instead of moulding a team around who you have available.

 

[Xuhaib]

Tough for Pakistan to recover from here.

Before making any major changes the first thing that needs changing is mindset. Since start of this year they have gone every game with the mindset to play for draw, starting with how pitches are prepared to the batsman not willing to up the ante even when well in its just been a timid approach. With decline of Yasir no effort has been made to push Shadab the best available spinner in the country to play tests they are happy to randomly give test caps to jouneyman fc spinners who will never cut it at top level. Zahid is a 35 yr old who averages 40 at FC level who in their right mind believes even before this game he will survive the bazball onslaught on this pitch. .

Babar was never the brightest chap and he has been combined with a coach who is equally dull and then there is a chairman who is more intrested in running his YouTube page for clicks and interfere with team day to day affairs then actually managing his Board. Its been a total shambles.

 

[Xuhaib]

i haven't given enough credit to England.

To me England are proof that test cricket is essentially a creative and tactical and mental game. A commentator earlier in the year spoke about how England were objectively a worse team than New Zealand. A simple look at the batting averages of the respective sides proves this, on paper at least. Pakistan's top 6 numerically is also drastically superior to England's. (i know Pak pitches play a role in this and that they are probably more even). But it doesn't matter when you have a captain like Stokes.

The wonderful thing about England's approach and the captaincy of someone like Stokes, is that he is showing that a positive mindset, combined with innovative approaches to tactics, field placement, strategy - are enough to get you wins. I haven't watched much Peaky Blinders but i remember someone said that the main character in that show was someone who always knew the right moves to make at the right time. Stokes is probably the closest thing cricket has to that.

I thought that the declaration was foolish and too easy a target. But I wouldn't put it past Stokes and McCullum to have understood that it was a better idea against a team like Pakistan to go slightly under than over. Half the reason this England side is intimidating to me is their ability to out-think the opposition.

Do people think Pakistan can get any results in this series without completely changing personnel (captain, coach, selector, pitches)? I am pretty doubtful after this result and Pakistan's obvious mental fragility.

Pakistan can get a result if they can relase the shackles. Prepare a proper turner play with Naseem and 3 spinners (Shadab, Nawaz and the new guy Abrar who has 43@21 this season) maybe drop Azhar Ali/Salman for Faheem. Is the current management really ballsy to carry this out?
I don't know.

 

[Prince EWS]

Pakistan can get a result if they can relase the shackles. Prepare a proper turner play with Naseem and 3 spinners (Shadab, Nawaz and the new guy Abrar who has 43@21 this season) maybe drop Azhar Ali/Salman for Faheem. Is the current management really ballsy to carry this out?
I don't know.

Yeah a proper turner with a specialist spin attack supported by Naseem and a bit of Faheem is definitely the go IMO. Do you rate any of the domestic offies? Mubasir maybe? Three all turning it away isn't really ideal.

7 Shadab
8 Mubasir
9 Faheem
10 Naseem
11 Abrar

Takes it from a terrible tail to a #7 at #9 too.

 

[Daemon]

Can’t drop the guy who took 6 wickets on debut imo

 

[Xuhaib]

Yeah a proper turner with a specialist spin attack supported by Naseem and a bit of Faheem is definitely the go IMO. Do you rate any of the domestic offies? Mubasir maybe? Three all turning it away isn't really ideal.

7 Shadab
8 Mubasir
9 Faheem
10 Naseem
11 Abrar

Takes it from a terrible tail to a #7 at #9 too.

They ain't playing Shadab unless he plays couple of 4 dayers to prove he is match fit. Though i doubt a proper square turner with bazball you would be bowling more then 50-60 overs an innings not much different to an odi. Mubasir imo is the best young batsman based on talent still to make a test debut, his bowling won't be test standard he's a little upgrade on Salman not picking him unless he plays 6.

Based on the resources they have this is what i go with

7-Nawaz
8-Faheem
9-Naseem
10-Ali/Abbas
11- Abrar

I dont belive they will make a turner it will be little less flat something like a Lahore pitch vs Australia. Rambo is obsessed with games going 5 days something to do with PCB tv deal being dependent on number of live days of cricket.

I will give Ali another game I thought he bowled ok after he got over early debut jitters and the shock of bazball.