England test tour of Pakistan December 2022

[Burgey]

He doesn’t average 4 against the CA leadership though so…

No, but what I'm saying is the prospect of facing Broad (or any other bowler in England in six months' time) is the furthest thing from his mind when the other crap is so prominent in the here and now.

 

[Burgey]

yet it is so much more than that ffs

It's not really though. The only thing which has demonstrably changed is the batting approach. They don't come out to bowl and mark out a 30 metre fielding restriction circle with four blokes out on the fence. The difference it makes is when it comes off the bowlers have more time to bowl out the opposition.

 

[Adders]

Disagree, I think Stokes is showing he's an excellent on field captain. He's proactive with his field settings and bowling changes, the improvement in this alone compared to Roots captaincy is just as stark to me as what's happening with the batting.

Of course the runs on the board are making this easier to manage but we've still taken the 20 wickets on some of flattest wickets we've seen in more than a decade.

 

[GIMH]

It's not really though. The only thing which has demonstrably changed is the batting approach. They don't come out to bowl and mark out a 30 metre fielding restriction circle with four blokes out on the fence. The difference it makes is when it comes off the bowlers have more time to bowl out the opposition.

This is fair in some ways but the approach allows the batsmen to attack so much more which I’d argue isn’t just a time factor but due to the fact the bowlers know they can risk conceding more runs knowing bigger chases are achievable whereas prior to this summer a deficit above 50 and they could only keep it tight and try and nick a few to keep the game alive. Yeah they’ve got more time to bowl the batsmen out but they’ve also got more licence to take wickets knowing that a wayward spell won’t necessarily kill the game like it might have done. The bowling averages bear this out.

Against NZ and India, it was almost you score 350 we will get 400, against South Africa the bowlers rescue the batsmen and I’d argue this doesn’t happen without an overall change of mindset. Similarly, that first Test in this series, fast runs obviously made a win possible but it still doesn’t happen without the captain backing his bowlers.

 

[Burgey]

improvement in this alone compared to Roots captaincy is just as stark to me as what's happening with the batting.

Well TBF a department store mannequin would be an improvement on Root's captaincy towards the end. Bloke was paralyzed for whatever reason.

 

[Spark]

I mean I do think you have to caveat that the English batsmen weren't exactly facing much by way of pedigree bowling led with alacrity during this series. You're not going to convince me that Zak Crawley is any good just because he smashed some gormless plodders on a runway.

 

[Ashes81]

Man does run down of the Australian batting line up and omits mentioning the three and four who average 60 a piece in test cricket.

I'm sure Jimmy will get a bit of drift though. He usually does.

If England prepare green tops they're mad. If you're going to slog your way to totals like the hack frauds they are, you don't want decks with plenty of sideways in them against blokes like Haze, Boland & Cummins. It would be a nightmare. Surely they'll prepare pretty flat decks so their shoddy techniques and adventurous approach are in with a shot at making a game of it?

The problem if they do that though is it helps the Aus batting line up as much as it does theirs. I mean, preparing something with little sideways movement in it when you're going to be bowling to Smith, Labushagne and Head is a recipe for a shambles isn't it?

Anyway, time will tell. Player for player, the likely Aus line up is simply better than England's. You're having a chuckle at the Aus top order when England's contains Crawley, Duckett and Pope ffs. They won't know what's hit them.

Aus should win and win well. A few DLF Maximums from the home side into the obnoxious, pasty crowd as the score rockets to 7/80 in the 12th over won't change that.

Man does rundown of England batting line up and omits our two best players in Root and Stokes who both have excellent record against the Aussies.
I deliberately missed out your 2 big guns as you conveniently missed out ours.

You're obviously worried mate - calling us hack frauds etc. We've just won 9 tests out of 10 against 4 different teams, 2 of whom were ranked number 1 in the world when we beat them.

If we're such a shite side and have been for years how come the 'mighty' Aussies haven't beaten us at home for 20 years.

Man for man the Aussies are stronger than us but you usually are but you hardly ever beat us at home.

We won't serve up green tops, it's a myth that we always do. We won't need to to trouble your batsmen who the big 2 apart won't be able to cope with the movement and swing Jimmy and Co serve up.

You see we use a proper ball over here that tests a batmans skill to the limit. Your lot don't have to worry about the moving ball in Oz, that's why you're found out over here.

If you think you'll come over here and wipe the floor with us, think again mate.

You couldn't do that in 2019, when we were truly shite and you certainly won't be doing it next year.

I can't wait.

 

[Burgey]

You see we use a proper ball over here that tests a batmans skill to the limit.

But you haven't won a single test here since 2011 despite it apparently being easy for batsmen.

Root's record agasint Aus is average at best. Stokes of course is mercurial but should be watching proceedings from a 6x8 foot cell in Pentonville Road Gaol. Absent Joel Wilson standing in a test, he'd just be a footnote to the 2019 series.

Aus 3-1. England will win the last test as they did last time because our blokes will still be on the piss celebrating the urn remaining in safe hands.

Home and hosed. Can't see Australia even breaking a sweat in winning this.

 

[Burgey]

I mean I do think you have to caveat that the English batsmen weren't exactly facing much by way of pedigree bowling led with alacrity during this series. You're not going to convince me that Zak Crawley is any good just because he smashed some gormless plodders on a runway.

He's apparently a white, 25 year old Viv Richards now.

 

[Shady Slim]

A few DLF Maximums from the home side into the obnoxious, pasty crowd as the score rockets to 7/80 in the 12th over won't change that.

haha yessssss

 

[CricAddict]

2 big series India-Australia and Australia-England coming up in the next few months. Yo.

 

[Burgey]

2 big series India-Australia and Australia-England coming up in the next few months. Yo.

Yeah, both massive series. Very challenging for Aus in both sets of conditions. Fortunately, England's mediocrity will ensure an Aus victory.

 

[honestbharani]

The thing about Stokes captaincy is it's basically pragmatic tuned upto 11. His field placings and bowling tactics have shown that he does not care about having a field that looks good but more about ensuring they get a wicket whichever way possible.

And the point of the Bazball runs is that while the bowling averages and ERs may suffer the SR does not and that ensures you are in a position to win coz you do end up scoring the runs that much faster anyways when you bat.

 

[slow deck]

It's worth recapping just how bad Pakistan were in this series. Some highlights:

1) Their selection was trash in every. single. game.
2) They served up flat docile pitches to a team that came into this series with 2 batters averaging under 28 and just 1 over 40 (obviously now changed)
3) Ramiz Raja wanted them to pick t20 players
4) They've been playing musical chairs with selection for a while now, but they have at least 4 batters in FC averaging over 40 (3 over 47) they could have picked in this squad instead (and 1 spin all rounder)
5) In the 1st innings of the last test Babar (and the selectors?) seemed to think he could bowl England out with 3 bowlers on a flat pitch. Repeat this point to let the absolute stupidity sink in.

6) After the first test, they went into their shells and lost all self-belief. How is this possible for a team playing at home?
7) Oh yeah according to Babar they dominated and just couldn't execute the coaches instructions properly.
8) The amount of soft dismissals on these pitches, I'd estimate it at about 65% plus
9) The solutions for Pakistan seem so f**** simple (select the best players from FC form) and yet so far from team management and thinktank - it is probably the most incompetent team culture I can think of.
10) The pitches they prepared for this series compared to last year feel like they just never believed they could beat England OR Australia.
11) Apparently they have a captain called Babar Azam...

I could go on and on and on honestly.
As much as this was an incredible achievement from England (it was), Pakistan almost gift-wrapped it to them.

 

[slow deck]

If you think you'll come over here and wipe the floor with us, think again mate.

You couldn't do that in 2019, when we were truly ****e and you certainly won't be doing it next year.

I think that's a little rich from a team that would have lost 3-1 in 2019 if Ben Stokes had been caught, or given out lbw when y'know it was pretty plumb, or hadn't played possibly the greatest innings ever. 95 times out of 100 they probably lose that match after the 9th wicket.

 

[Spark]

It's worth recapping just how bad Pakistan were in this series. Some highlights:

1) Their selection was trash in every. single. game.
2) They served up flat docile pitches to a team that came into this series with 2 batters averaging under 28 and just 1 over 40 (obviously now changed)
3) Ramiz Raja wanted them to pick t20 players
4) They've been playing musical chairs with selection for a while now, but they have at least 4 batters in FC averaging over 40 (3 over 47) they could have picked in this squad instead (and 1 spin all rounder)
5) In the 1st innings of the last test Babar (and the selectors?) seemed to think he could bowl England out with 3 bowlers on a flat pitch. Repeat this point to let the absolute stupidity sink in.

6) After the first test, they went into their shells and lost all self-belief. How is this possible for a team playing at home?
7) Oh yeah according to Babar they dominated and just couldn't execute the coaches instructions properly.
8) The amount of soft dismissals on these pitches, I'd estimate it at about 65% plus
9) The solutions for Pakistan seem so f**** simple (select the best players from FC form) and yet so far from team management and thinktank - it is probably the most incompetent team culture I can think of.
10) The pitches they prepared for this series compared to last year feel like they just never believed they could beat England OR Australia.
11) Apparently they have a captain called Babar Azam...

I could go on and on and on honestly.
As much as this was an incredible achievement from England (it was), Pakistan almost gift-wrapped it to them.

All this is true, and yet none of this is as stupid as the single decision to pick this guy as a Test #7

 

[Burgey]

Not so much nosebleeds as pulmonary edema.

 

[Nintendo]

It's worth recapping just how bad Pakistan were in this series. Some highlights:

1) Their selection was trash in every. single. game.
2) They served up flat docile pitches to a team that came into this series with 2 batters averaging under 28 and just 1 over 40 (obviously now changed)
3) Ramiz Raja wanted them to pick t20 players
4) They've been playing musical chairs with selection for a while now, but they have at least 4 batters in FC averaging over 40 (3 over 47) they could have picked in this squad instead (and 1 spin all rounder)
5) In the 1st innings of the last test Babar (and the selectors?) seemed to think he could bowl England out with 3 bowlers on a flat pitch. Repeat this point to let the absolute stupidity sink in.

6) After the first test, they went into their shells and lost all self-belief. How is this possible for a team playing at home?
7) Oh yeah according to Babar they dominated and just couldn't execute the coaches instructions properly.
8) The amount of soft dismissals on these pitches, I'd estimate it at about 65% plus
9) The solutions for Pakistan seem so f**** simple (select the best players from FC form) and yet so far from team management and thinktank - it is probably the most incompetent team culture I can think of.
10) The pitches they prepared for this series compared to last year feel like they just never believed they could beat England OR Australia.
11) Apparently they have a captain called Babar Azam...

I could go on and on and on honestly.
As much as this was an incredible achievement from England (it was), Pakistan almost gift-wrapped it to them.

Just on this point, is the solution really as simple as picking the best FC performers? Muhammad ali was arguably the best seamer this FC season, and has by far the best record of the top 3 seamers by wickets and average in the first class season that went by, and yet absolutely flopped when picked vs england.

At the end of the day, the fc decks that were rolled out were nothing like the test decks pak used. You look at the first test highway in fc cricket, and this season it was a pitch where 300 was a roughly par score from memory. As a selector it's very hard to pick your best players on FC performance when the pitches you get at test level are nothing like the decks the FC players are performing on.

This isn't to excuse poor selection in general, abrar missing out for zahid in the first test because zahid had been with the squad for longer is insane no matter the circumstances, but the situation isn't THAT simple to solve.

 

[Starfighter]

@Nintendo which country are you from? You always seem to be on Australia and Pakistan threads.

The problem of not being able to pick the best bowlers because the decks are different is very much part of the particularly cowardly culture that Ramiz has brought. Pakistan went into that series looking to draw from the start, as they did the Australian one.

The other problem with guys like Ali is he's obviously just a journeyman nearer the end of his career than the start. There seems to be no interest in getting Pakistan's best pace prospects (or spin bowling allrounder prospects *cough*Shadab*cough*) to play FC cricket. When you rock up with a combination of guys who've succeeded in different conditions and ones who've barely any experience is when you have a really bad time.

 

[slow deck]

Just on this point, is the solution really as simple as picking the best FC performers? Muhammad ali was arguably the best seamer this FC season, and has by far the best record of the top 3 seamers by wickets and average in the first class season that went by, and yet absolutely flopped when picked vs england.

At the end of the day, the fc decks that were rolled out were nothing like the test decks pak used. You look at the first test highway in fc cricket, and this season it was a pitch where 300 was a roughly par score from memory. As a selector it's very hard to pick your best players on FC performance when the pitches you get at test level are nothing like the decks the FC players are performing on.

This isn't to excuse poor selection in general, abrar missing out for zahid in the first test because zahid had been with the squad for longer is insane no matter the circumstances, but the situation isn't THAT simple to solve.

My comment on FC selections in this series (with the injuries to the 3 fast bowlers) is more about the batting side of things. At least 3-4 batters in the current lineup have much worse FC records than batsmen Salahuddin, Ghulam, Hurraira and Mubasir.

Regarding the bowling I just think given the injuries Pakistan needed more experience around the squad like Hasan Ali and Abbas to even out the inexperience of the squad, especially after the first test.

The pitches thing is about mentality. This year has proven Pakistan won't beat anyone being always afraid to lose. So they need to play results cricket and not worry about losing because they're going to lose anyway if they play like this. If Pakistan play in a way to produce results that's all the fans can ask of them anyway.