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England Squad of 30 for the World Cup
- Thread starter V Reddy
- Start date
Bazza
International 12th Man
Come on Chris:
- Tufnell? He couldn't get in the OD side at his peak - can't even get in the Middlesex team in fact!
- Kadeer Ali? 5 List a games.
- Ben Smith? Oh the legend that is Ben Smith. Probably underrated but England material?
- Shafayat? Averages 20 with one half century in 22 games. Hardly burst onto the scene has he?
- Foster? You all know what I think of that buffoon.
- Golding? 14 wickets at 45 from 11 FC games hardly takes the breath away.....
- Lawson? The only Lawson I could find has played 3 List-A games for Cumberland. Scored 9 in his only innings and has combined figures of 15-0-107-1, an interesting selection.
- Clarke? He's only played a handful of games and not done enough with the ball to be considered an all rounder.
- Fellows? Bats 21 and bowls 35 with an econ of 5.37. Real classy all rounder.
- Ramprakash? Has one half century in 18 ODIs and averages 26 at a SR of 69.
You said the 30 was poor, what about your squad? You would pick Gary Fellows over Jeremy Snape? James Golding over Steve Harmison? Purlease.....:rolleyes:
- Tufnell? He couldn't get in the OD side at his peak - can't even get in the Middlesex team in fact!
- Kadeer Ali? 5 List a games.
- Ben Smith? Oh the legend that is Ben Smith. Probably underrated but England material?
- Shafayat? Averages 20 with one half century in 22 games. Hardly burst onto the scene has he?
- Foster? You all know what I think of that buffoon.
- Golding? 14 wickets at 45 from 11 FC games hardly takes the breath away.....
- Lawson? The only Lawson I could find has played 3 List-A games for Cumberland. Scored 9 in his only innings and has combined figures of 15-0-107-1, an interesting selection.
- Clarke? He's only played a handful of games and not done enough with the ball to be considered an all rounder.
- Fellows? Bats 21 and bowls 35 with an econ of 5.37. Real classy all rounder.
- Ramprakash? Has one half century in 18 ODIs and averages 26 at a SR of 69.
You said the 30 was poor, what about your squad? You would pick Gary Fellows over Jeremy Snape? James Golding over Steve Harmison? Purlease.....:rolleyes:
Neil Pickup
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In reply to Barrie...
- Tufnell? He couldn't get in the OD side at his peak - can't even get in the Middlesex team in fact!
Dead right. Back to the dark ages..
- Kadeer Ali? 5 List a games.
Give him more time... no way no how yet.
- Ben Smith? Oh the legend that is Ben Smith. Probably underrated but England material?
Please don't bring this up again..
- Shafayat? Averages 20 with one half century in 22 games. Hardly burst onto the scene has he?
Destroyed India U19 in the Tests last winter. Mind, he wasn't in Chris' squad. That was some guy called Sheryahat, who's a cross between Sheriyar and Shafayat. Sheriyar no way either, before someone brings that up.
- Foster? You all know what I think of that buffoon.
What, Chris? A certain Mr Read, maybe!
- Golding? 14 wickets at 45 from 11 FC games hardly takes the breath away.....
A random name from Kent II?
- Lawson? The only Lawson I could find has played 3 List-A games for Cumberland. Scored 9 in his only innings and has combined figures of 15-0-107-1, an interesting selection.
This one's confused me. Can I be in the squad too?
- Clarke? He's only played a handful of games and not done enough with the ball to be considered an all rounder.
*Coughs guts up*... What about... Michael Burns, he's a batting allrounder who can hardly bowl...
- Fellows? Bats 21 and bowls 35 with an econ of 5.37. Real classy all rounder.
We have enough Yorkie bias already
- Ramprakash? Has one half century in 18 ODIs and averages 26 at a SR of 69.
He's an all rounder too. Remember, he took 3wkts against Zimbabwe once. I'd rather see Ajit play for England.
You said the 30 was poor, what about your squad? You would pick Gary Fellows over Jeremy Snape? James Golding over Steve Harmison? Purlease.....:rolleyes: [/quote]
What's wrong with Harmison and Snape, anyway? Harmison has pace and fight unlike the rest of England's attack (Jones excepted) and Snape is a versatile player useful for ODIs. And if you tell me that your brother's a better bowler, I will not be held responsible for my actions.
- Tufnell? He couldn't get in the OD side at his peak - can't even get in the Middlesex team in fact!
Dead right. Back to the dark ages..
- Kadeer Ali? 5 List a games.
Give him more time... no way no how yet.
- Ben Smith? Oh the legend that is Ben Smith. Probably underrated but England material?
Please don't bring this up again..
- Shafayat? Averages 20 with one half century in 22 games. Hardly burst onto the scene has he?
Destroyed India U19 in the Tests last winter. Mind, he wasn't in Chris' squad. That was some guy called Sheryahat, who's a cross between Sheriyar and Shafayat. Sheriyar no way either, before someone brings that up.
- Foster? You all know what I think of that buffoon.
What, Chris? A certain Mr Read, maybe!
- Golding? 14 wickets at 45 from 11 FC games hardly takes the breath away.....
A random name from Kent II?
- Lawson? The only Lawson I could find has played 3 List-A games for Cumberland. Scored 9 in his only innings and has combined figures of 15-0-107-1, an interesting selection.
This one's confused me. Can I be in the squad too?
- Clarke? He's only played a handful of games and not done enough with the ball to be considered an all rounder.
*Coughs guts up*... What about... Michael Burns, he's a batting allrounder who can hardly bowl...
- Fellows? Bats 21 and bowls 35 with an econ of 5.37. Real classy all rounder.
We have enough Yorkie bias already
- Ramprakash? Has one half century in 18 ODIs and averages 26 at a SR of 69.
He's an all rounder too. Remember, he took 3wkts against Zimbabwe once. I'd rather see Ajit play for England.
You said the 30 was poor, what about your squad? You would pick Gary Fellows over Jeremy Snape? James Golding over Steve Harmison? Purlease.....:rolleyes: [/quote]
What's wrong with Harmison and Snape, anyway? Harmison has pace and fight unlike the rest of England's attack (Jones excepted) and Snape is a versatile player useful for ODIs. And if you tell me that your brother's a better bowler, I will not be held responsible for my actions.
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Tufnell is a certain pick for the Middlesex FC team but I don't know why he doesn't play more OD cricket...I suppose it's his fielding and batting and such, he's a good enough bowler though, but for the World Cup? Come on!
Kadeer hasn't done anywhere near enough
Ben Smith had a good OD season and a decent FC one but a bit old and need more of it before he's picked for England...mind you they picked Solanki so I suppose anything goes :rolleyes:
Shafayat is like Kadeer...not enough to warrent and inclusion.
Foster can't catch and his OD batting has looked suspect...so why?
Golding? Ok...I'm not going to warrent this with an answer :rolleyes:
Lawson? He's a West Indian...:rolleyes:
Clarke maybe but need more proof that he's up to it.
Fellows...right...what role would he play? He played a few good innings this season but no bowling performances to talk about really...Anthony McGrath was bowled instead of Fellows in the C&G Trophy Final...says it all really :rolleyes:
Ramprakash...has never looked like a OD player really, he did ok against Zimbabwe in the 5-0 drubbing 2 Autumns ago...but that was a very disorganised Zimbabwe Team. Also although he bowled decently I heard a comment by Nasser Hussain that he had to drag Ramprakash to the bowling crease sometimes as he hates bowling...again...says it all really :rolleyes:
Kadeer hasn't done anywhere near enough
Ben Smith had a good OD season and a decent FC one but a bit old and need more of it before he's picked for England...mind you they picked Solanki so I suppose anything goes :rolleyes:
Shafayat is like Kadeer...not enough to warrent and inclusion.
Foster can't catch and his OD batting has looked suspect...so why?
Golding? Ok...I'm not going to warrent this with an answer :rolleyes:
Lawson? He's a West Indian...:rolleyes:
Clarke maybe but need more proof that he's up to it.
Fellows...right...what role would he play? He played a few good innings this season but no bowling performances to talk about really...Anthony McGrath was bowled instead of Fellows in the C&G Trophy Final...says it all really :rolleyes:
Ramprakash...has never looked like a OD player really, he did ok against Zimbabwe in the 5-0 drubbing 2 Autumns ago...but that was a very disorganised Zimbabwe Team. Also although he bowled decently I heard a comment by Nasser Hussain that he had to drag Ramprakash to the bowling crease sometimes as he hates bowling...again...says it all really :rolleyes:
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
His bowling is not that good any more, and his complete lack of fielding or batting ability means he's not suited to One Day Cricket. Also there's the matter of his temprament
Solanki is deserving some perseverence in my opinion, he's still got time to develop.
After thinking about it, I guess he means Dawson?
chris.hinton
International Captain
Tufnell is still the best spinner we have, Batty,snape,Giles are not even close
Kadder Ali- Kadder has Amazing Potenial and can destory Bowling Attacks, Has done well in Under 19 cricket but oh i forgot he has to play 2 seasons of County cricket oh silly Me It WILL be a Talent wasted then
Ben Smith- Consistant at National league level and should be given a Chance
Shahyat he only 19 and good a great talent we should Identify these kids
Foster- not a Boofon but got good Ability and as a good Tough Image
Golding- Remember Bazza that it a One day Competition and not 4 day he has done well in the National league
Lawson - Is in the Under 19 squad and bowls leg spin, Plays for Yorkshire but i will say that Munday is better ( and no Dawson is crap)
Clarke- Only 20 and got good Ability with the Bat and Ball remember he is playing for Surrey
Fellows- Only Young and needs the chance so what if he Ecom is 5.37 at least he Attacks
Rampakash- I would give him one more chance he HAS the talent and bowls useful offspin
BAZZA you dont have much about English cricket as you have the Englishman Mentality. (This is why we are stuggling). Blood Kids Early they get lost in the CC
we have good youngsters but we must coach them well and fast track them
[Edited on 10/12/2002 by chris.hinton]
chris.hinton
International Captain
But Phil Tufnell will NOw Not be in my 30, Batty Will
Neil Pickup
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I'm as much in favour of blooding kids early as anyone else, but you're just taking it to a stupid extreme.
Having half-baked players on the world stage with no experience is asking for annihilation. Pakistan. Zimbabwe have been bringing in young and promising players and they have failed spectacularly.
You can not throw players in at the deep end so early. They will most probably have their confidence shot to pieces and need years to recover (Formula 1 analogy: Pierluigi Martini @ Minardi).
Kadeer, Shafayat should both be in the 30 by WC 2007 but for them to be near International selection now is lunacy.
And to pick an U19 leggie with no FC or List A experience is hard to find words to describe. Let them mature for a couple of years (not to the stage where England have gone of late.. waiting until they're 27+) but you can't throw kids in left, right and centre.
And why, oh why would you pick Foster over Read?
1) Read is a better keeper
2) Read is a better batsman
Having half-baked players on the world stage with no experience is asking for annihilation. Pakistan. Zimbabwe have been bringing in young and promising players and they have failed spectacularly.
You can not throw players in at the deep end so early. They will most probably have their confidence shot to pieces and need years to recover (Formula 1 analogy: Pierluigi Martini @ Minardi).
Kadeer, Shafayat should both be in the 30 by WC 2007 but for them to be near International selection now is lunacy.
And to pick an U19 leggie with no FC or List A experience is hard to find words to describe. Let them mature for a couple of years (not to the stage where England have gone of late.. waiting until they're 27+) but you can't throw kids in left, right and centre.
And why, oh why would you pick Foster over Read?
1) Read is a better keeper
2) Read is a better batsman
Bazza
International 12th Man
Chris - I deciphered that last bit as suggesting I don't know much about English cricket?
Well did you know that Phil Tufnell made his List-A debut in 1988 and has only played 93 games since then, 20 of which were ODIs. That's 73 games in 15 years at Middlesex. So our best spinner can only play about a quarter of his county's matches? Also he last played an ODI 6 years ago, and didn't play a single OD game for Middlesex this season. Don't get me wrong, I like Tuffers, and I feel he could have played a couple more years of test cricket - certainly shoud have played more than 42 games, but he's 36 now, and you are the one suggesting we blood some youngsters.
Kadeer, Shafayat, Lawson and Clarke (so what if he's playing for Surrey? Should that make him an automatic pick or something?) are too young. People have become obsessed with this idea that the county championship ruins talented young players. Well it didn't seem to do Michael Vaughan any harm in the 7 seasons he played before making his test match debut.
I could give you a long list of talented players who got chucked in at the deep end whilst still wet behind the ears and after a few failures were never heard from again. THAT is wasting talent.
Gary Fellows - maybe if his batting average of 21 and his bowling average of 35 were the other way round he could be considered.
As for Ramps, well I think he's already had about 10 'one more chances'. Again if we are going to pick some new faces, lets go all the way. It's a shame he never made more of an impression, but you can only persevere with someone for so long.
Golding - the reason I referred to his FC stats is because that is an environment where the priority is to take wickets. If you can't take wickets in the (supposedly sub-standard) county championship, where are you going to do it? At the world cup? I don't think so. Maybe if he had one or two decent seasons he could be considered. The nicest thing I could say about this guy is probably that he can bat a bit.
Well did you know that Phil Tufnell made his List-A debut in 1988 and has only played 93 games since then, 20 of which were ODIs. That's 73 games in 15 years at Middlesex. So our best spinner can only play about a quarter of his county's matches? Also he last played an ODI 6 years ago, and didn't play a single OD game for Middlesex this season. Don't get me wrong, I like Tuffers, and I feel he could have played a couple more years of test cricket - certainly shoud have played more than 42 games, but he's 36 now, and you are the one suggesting we blood some youngsters.
Kadeer, Shafayat, Lawson and Clarke (so what if he's playing for Surrey? Should that make him an automatic pick or something?) are too young. People have become obsessed with this idea that the county championship ruins talented young players. Well it didn't seem to do Michael Vaughan any harm in the 7 seasons he played before making his test match debut.
I could give you a long list of talented players who got chucked in at the deep end whilst still wet behind the ears and after a few failures were never heard from again. THAT is wasting talent.
Gary Fellows - maybe if his batting average of 21 and his bowling average of 35 were the other way round he could be considered.
As for Ramps, well I think he's already had about 10 'one more chances'. Again if we are going to pick some new faces, lets go all the way. It's a shame he never made more of an impression, but you can only persevere with someone for so long.
Golding - the reason I referred to his FC stats is because that is an environment where the priority is to take wickets. If you can't take wickets in the (supposedly sub-standard) county championship, where are you going to do it? At the world cup? I don't think so. Maybe if he had one or two decent seasons he could be considered. The nicest thing I could say about this guy is probably that he can bat a bit.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
He's played 9 FC games, and averages 5.2 - on that basis we should select Tufnell, but as a specialist batsman with his 9.69 average!!!
He's never played a top class game and you want him in the squad - I assume this is because he's a leggie?
Fast track them when they show themselves worthy of it, but some of those selections definitely don't warrant fast tracking!
Andre
International Regular
Now who's the buffon Chris? Hehe
. In all seriousness though, how can Ealham have missed out on the top 30?Oh Chris btw, the leg-spinner idea is a ncie one, but you have taken it too far and are carried away with it. It's like you have some sort of obession. But the fact remains, their are no decent leg-spinners in England so you don't just pick one for the heck of it.
And about the fast-tracking situation, the only country that reall does that is the West Indies, and those players (eg. Samuels, Dillon) have been dropped pleanty of times before they started doing anything decent, suggesting that fast-tracking is not a good move.
Not even Australia fast track guys who are just picked on talent. They fast track guys who have performed above the rest of the field in the country (eg. Lee, Watson, Hauritz) and these guys pay off. As much of a fan as you are, you simply cannot argue that Kadder Ali is worth fast-tracking with a first-class average of 5?
anyway, thats my 2 cents - people are getting carried away with ideas that are nice in theory. Simply because Australia are the best in the world, they also have flaws so they should'nt be identically copied.
chris.hinton
International Captain
I keep telling People they ARE Decent Leggies in England, but they are in 17-20 age group and need to be given a Chance, Counties want FLAT OFF SPINNER (Croft,Giles,Snape,Smith) instead of Mystray Spin (as Nassiar Hussain as said on Sunday)
But my Case for Lawson is that he will be in the 30 but will get no where at the moment but is Groomed to be a Future Leggie as i think a couple of other will in time.
But my Case for Lawson is that he will be in the 30 but will get no where at the moment but is Groomed to be a Future Leggie as i think a couple of other will in time.
chris.hinton
International Captain
Left Arm Chinaman what have you got against them, anyway we know that they are 15 picked out of 19 really good ones, but by picking youth you arte saying to them " We think you have Potenial go and prove me right" and this will give confidence to the player
[Edited on 11/12/2002 by chris.hinton]
Neil Pickup
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So what good would that do? Might as well put Geoff Boycott in it, or me. Heck, why not stick Stephen Hawking there?
chris.hinton
International Captain
good point