England players and selection discussion thread

[Xix2565]

Lol if you want to be in denial go ahead, but England didn't do much wrong in debating whether they should be in the side away from home. The actions taken afterwards are far more questionable.

 

[jayjay]

We are already in uncharted territory with Anderson. He's pushing 40, still obviously England's best bowler, still one of England's fittest players and still a good fielder. For all anyone knows he might have another five years in him, partly because he seems to be some sort of genetic freak and partly because we know a lot more about how to stay fit nowadays than we did in the 1980s. He certainly looks less likely to break down than Robinson or Fisher.

Nice to see lots of English batsmen doing well in the CC so far. Brook looks quality and can't be far away from a call-up. Same with Bohannon.

Problem is, we've seen English batsmen do well in CC for years, get picked and utterly fail at international level.

 

[jayjay]

I reckon we all maybe a bit close-minded. yeah Anderson is our best performer, but apparently we are not taking enough wickets away from home. So yeah he should be dropped for this reason, but I would go further Root may score the most runs away from home, but we don't score enough runs away from home or at home, so he must be part of the problem, so I would suggest we ditch the useless ****er, let's ditch all our decent players and just replace them with randoms because we aren't doing great, makes sense to me.

Is England's batting a problem home AND away? Yes, for sure and the batsmen have been rightly ridiculed for it. Butt here aren't many alternatives and a lot of those batsmen should be at the peak of their careers.

The argument against Jimmy and Broad, and one that Key himself admitted to, is that they are nearing 40 and there's not much else they can do at this stage, apart from keep out the young guns, who may or may not be great but one can not know without trying them.

Plus didn't both Jimmy and Broad play against India and England still lost a home series?

Time to move on, because if not now, then when....when Jimmy's 45 and Mahmood is 30 himself, Robinson is 35, Archer is retired?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Time to move on, because if not now, then when....

Surely the answer should be "when there are other players better than them." - however soon that happens.

 

[jayjay]

Surely the answer should be "when there are other players better than them." - however soon that happens.

How can you know without trying?

If we're looking at County then Mahmood is out performing Jimmy so far and Broad isn't even playing.
Internationally Robinson is averaging better than Jimmy, while Broad is the best of the lot so even more of an argument for him maybe, then looking at SR a pretty important and underused stat, there's several bowlers doing better than Jimmy, including Stone, Robinson and Wood.

There's a new core that can be belt, which is what Key actually argued for on Sky. Hope he sticks with that way of thinking rather than trying to appease the still powerful Jimmy and Broad.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

How can you know without trying?

If we're looking at County then Mahmood is out performing Jimmy so far and Broad isn't even playing.
Internationally Robinson is averaging better than Jimmy, while Broad is the best of the lot so even more of an argument for him maybe, then looking at SR a pretty important and underused stat, there's several bowlers doing better than Jimmy, including Stone, Robinson and Wood.

There's a new core that can be belt, which is what Key actually argued for on Sky. Hope he sticks with that way of thinking rather than trying to appease the still powerful Jimmy and Broad.

The last decade of international cricket probably a better means of judging Anderson than a single County Championship game (in which he did fine anyway). Incidentally Broad and Anderson are both playing the current round of fixtures. Mahmood is sitting out. Robinson still not fit.

Others will get their chance, and will probably benefit from training and playing alongside the old guard. Robinson has already showed he is Test quality but needs to improve his fitness. When he's fit he'll be back. Mahmood as I said will most likely play this summer. Broad and Anderson not being permanently dropped =/= no other seamers getting a game.

 

[Blenkinsop]

In Lancashire's current game Anderson has taken 6-60 from 37 overs across both innings. Better than decent. Broad took four-for in the second innings of Notts' match. Not sure which England qualified bowlers are outperforming them?

By all accounts Tom Helm has bowled pretty well but I see he didn't bowl in the second innings of the Middx-Leics game, hope he's not injured.

 

[grecian]

In Lancashire's current game Anderson has taken 6-60 from 37 overs across both innings. Better than decent. Broad took four-for in the second innings of Notts' match. Not sure which England qualified bowlers are outperforming them?

By all accounts Tom Helm has bowled pretty well but I see he didn't bowl in the second innings of the Middx-Leics game, hope he's not injured.

Is England's batting a problem home AND away? Yes, for sure and the batsmen have been rightly ridiculed for it. Butt here aren't many alternatives and a lot of those batsmen should be at the peak of their careers.

The argument against Jimmy and Broad, and one that Key himself admitted to, is that they are nearing 40 and there's not much else they can do at this stage, apart from keep out the young guns, who may or may not be great but one can not know without trying them.

Plus didn't both Jimmy and Broad play against India and England still lost a home series?

Time to move on, because if not now, then when....when Jimmy's 45 and Mahmood is 30 himself, Robinson is 35, Archer is retired?

Again the argument against both is their age, not much else they can do? WTF at not much more they can do at this age, they can be excellent at bowling, which is what they have done for awhile, again indeed they played against India we lost, so did Root and Stokes drop them all obviously. Unless I'm mistaken there are more than two seamers allowed to play for a team, so others get a chance. so they can prove if they are great, they haven't so far btw.

If Jimmy is 45 and still bowling like he is, no problem, keep him in, he's fit and bowling at the moment unlike Archer, Stone, Robinson, oh and even Mahmood was rested in these matches, one match in 3 obviously enough for him.

Again, this **** shouldn't be hard you drop guys when they stop performing, not because of their age.

Oh and I find it really odd we keep on discussing them as a single entity, I personally think Anderson is elite, Broad has faltered a bit. One is a definite pick, the other I can see why you might want to move on...

 

[grecian]

How can you know without trying?

If we're looking at County then Mahmood is out performing Jimmy so far and Broad isn't even playing.
Internationally Robinson is averaging better than Jimmy, while Broad is the best of the lot so even more of an argument for him maybe, then looking at SR a pretty important and underused stat, there's several bowlers doing better than Jimmy, including Stone, Robinson and Wood.

There's a new core that can be belt, which is what Key actually argued for on Sky. Hope he sticks with that way of thinking rather than trying to appease the still powerful Jimmy and Broad.

All along with Archer injured ATM.

 

[jayjay]

Again the argument against both is their age, not much else they can do? WTF at not much more they can do at this age, they can be excellent at bowling, which is what they have done for awhile, again indeed they played against India we lost, so did Root and Stokes drop them all obviously. Unless I'm mistaken there are more than two seamers allowed to play for a team, so others get a chance. so they can prove if they are great, they haven't so far btw.

If Jimmy is 45 and still bowling like he is, no problem, keep him in, he's fit and bowling at the moment unlike Archer, Stone, Robinson, oh and even Mahmood was rested in these matches, one match in 3 obviously enough for him.

Again, this **** shouldn't be hard you drop guys when they stop performing, not because of their age.

Oh and I find it really odd we keep on discussing them as a single entity, I personally think Anderson is elite, Broad has faltered a bit. One is a definite pick, the other I can see why you might want to move on...

Broad has averaged better than Jimmy in the last 2.5 years...

 

[grecian]

Broad has averaged better than Jimmy in the last 2.5 years...

Okay, I'm wrong keep on picking both, BTW you mentioned County cricket, Branderson are both playing today, all the other options you talk up, aren't.

 

[Xix2565]

Doesn't change the facts about their decline away from home though? Which is what you blamed the weak batting on when the bowlers are the ones supposed to take 20 wickets.

 

[FBU]

Anderson's issues are to do with his output away from home and the effects of that on the team. None of this can simply be blamed on batting problems, considering batters generally don't bowl in Tests.

Away from home from 2020, 8 Tests 29 wickets at 14.58 econ 1.77 s/r 49.2
I think he will retire after this summer. I can't see him going on.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Okay, I'm wrong keep on picking both, BTW you mentioned County cricket, Branderson are both playing today, all the other options you talk up, aren't.

Anderson fitter than all these bowlers in their 20s but he's "too old"

go figure

 

[Xix2565]

Away from home from 2020, 8 Tests 29 wickets at 14.58 econ 1.77 s/r 49.2
I think he will retire after this summer. I can't see him going on.

A shorter span doesn't exactly say much considering from 2018 to 2020 his figures were 9 Tests, 22 wickets at 32.81, economy of 2.53 and SR of 77.7, right at the start of the current pace bowling boom where everyone who bowls pace has had a good time. If anything considering the way some people rate him he should have been able to do that for the entire stretch of time.

And again, I have no issues with him playing at home. England's problems away from home aren't as exposable at home because they have the bowlers to dominate most sides in England.

 

[kevinw]

Anderson and Broad are first choice picks in any sane world. By miles. Robinson is the third seamer if fit, sure. Add the spinner and even if that means Robinson and Broad at eight and nine, you tell them to bat like their lives depend on it. Wood is the only other guy in contention here. Archer is a long way off.

The other bowlers: Woakes, Overton, Curran etc are a huge drop in quality.

 

[social]

Knocking on the door

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520799452591792130

 

[Shady Slim]

Anderson and Broad have been pretty good away recently.

Most importantly, they've easily outplayed all rivals for their places bar Robinson and maybe Wood. You can make a good argument for including Wood or maybe a fit Archer or Stone ahead of one of the medium fast trio but England stupidly broke up one of the few things working well.

Since the start of 2018:

Anderson 51 wickets at 22/62 in 17 Tests (3 WPM)
Broad 50 wickets at 28/66 in 18 Tests (2.78 WPM)

i fail to see how these numbers contradict anything that flem's said

 

[Xix2565]

i fail to see how these numbers contradict anything that flem's said

I was comparing it to other spearheads/bowlers from other attacks.

 

[Shady Slim]

I was comparing it to other spearheads/bowlers from other attacks.

yeah but the qn of whether or not they ought be dropped isn't whether they're comparable to other spearheads across the world it's if they're in the T3 pacers in the team which they seek to represent tbqh