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England players and selection discussion thread

Red_Ink_Squid

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
wpdavid said:
His mentor Graham Gooch used to do that on the last day of a test match that was going nowhere. Did a passable impersonation of Bob Willis iirc.
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Yeah, Cook has kept the tradition going, often will bowl like this on the final day of an obvious draw. I've seen a cricket writer previously refer to it as "Alistair Cook's impression of Graham Gooch's impression of Bob Willis."
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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Magrat Garlick said:
www.espncricinfo.com

James Anderson on England dropping: 'I've stopped trying to make sense of it'

England's all-time leading wicket-taker says he has had no feedback after being controversially omitted for Caribbean
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

this seems comically inept management

ECB Circus thread when
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Actually makes a bit of sense to me. Been a badly kept secret that Anderson and Broad have been toxic personalities around the set-up and getting some time away from them (or rid of them completely) is logical even if they are still bowling well. And of course no one is going to come out and publicly say that's the reason for the omission, or say it to those players themselves.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
TheJediBrah said:
Actually makes a bit of sense to me. Been a badly kept secret that Anderson and Broad have been toxic personalities around the set-up and getting some time away from them (or rid of them completely) is logical even if they are still bowling well. And of course no one is going to come out and publicly say that's the reason for the omission, or say it to those players themselves.
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Of course they're not going to say that, but I wonder if Broad and Anderson have been told in an official or semi-official manner that their attitudes and influence on the side were toxic. If they have, then shame on them and perhaps they're trying to run a PR campaign in the knowledge Root, Strauss and co will never (or at least not until books later on) out them in public. If they haven't, then that is a failure of the England environment. They should have been given a warning that their behaviour was impacting the side as a whole, and they needed to be more inclusive to make the side work.

My guess is that they haven't been told and allowed to be the Alphas for too long, and it got to a point where Strauss and co felt it was untenable. Only a guess, but plenty of evidence shows it used to happen during the days of Swann, Prior and co.
 
social

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
England will eventually have to move on from Anderson & Broad but surely that should only happen when there’s reasonably credible alternatives

Robinson is a good bowler but isn’t fit enough

Woakes is a proven failure away from home

Overton has never been good enough

Their respective performances in the WI were entirely predictable
 
G

greg

International Debutant
For “toxic” read “low tolerance of mediocrity and failure”. This England team have taken comfort in collective poor performance to whole new depths and there appears to be a comprehensive lack of challenge to this at all levels of the structure.

The number of times Broad and Anderson have had to strap the boots on again after another woeful batting collapse, and bowling way more than their share of overs to boot, would have tested the patience of saints. At least in the golden era of England collapses they tended to be preceded by some respite in the form of reaching decent batting positions to collapse from.
 
Shri

Shri

Mr. Glass
The implication was that Anderson and Broad had been disruptive members of the dressing room, with both bowlers writing newspaper columns after England's Ashes defeat in Adelaide refuting Root's suggestions that they had bowled too short with the new ball.




"I don't know. I didn't hear that," Anderson said, asked about Root's comments. "I'm not sure. If that's the case then… I dunno. We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the summer.


Joe Root and James Anderson walk off as players leave the field at The Oval, London, September 4, 2021

Anderson said he had not heard from Joe Root since being dropped for the Caribbean tour•AFP/Getty Images


"Not really," he added when asked if he thought he was difficult to captain. "It depends… in terms of what? I've done what I did for quite a long period of time, I feel like I know what I'm doing. I don't think I'm extremely stubborn. I will take advice and feedback from people. You'd have to ask Joe what he means by that."


:lol:
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Xix2565 said:
I mean let's not pretend like Broad and Anderson are perfect bowlers even in England.
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Haha, what? They're the best two bowlers in England that England have. That not enough?

greg said:
For “toxic” read “low tolerance of mediocrity and failure”. This England team have taken comfort in collective poor performance to whole new depths and there appears to be a comprehensive lack of challenge to this at all levels of the structure.

The number of times Broad and Anderson have had to strap the boots on again after another woeful batting collapse, and bowling way more than their share of overs to boot, would have tested the patience of saints. At least in the golden era of England collapses they tended to be preceded by some respite in the form of reaching decent batting positions to collapse from.
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Yeah, but the accusation is that they don't have any patience at all. That they are toxic. Unaccepting and openly so of any underperforming. Unwilling to support up and coming players. Basically carrying an air of arrogance and complete disinterest in being team players. Now I don't know that to be 100% true, but that's what keeps floating around. And I'd hate for anyone to think that's something that high performing players are or need to be. It ain't.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
SteveNZ said:
Haha, what? They're the best two bowlers in England that England have. That not enough?
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By performance alone they have competition who can be argued to be on par or better (even if some have small sample sizes). That's not being perfect unless your definition of perfect extends to quite a few English pace bowlers. And I do think their general reputation in cricketing terms is kind of clouding the cricket when it comes to picking a good English side. I didn't say anything like they won't be back in the Test team or that they should never play, but they're not necessarily automatic anymore. I can definitely see an ideal "rotation" if you really wanted to know and I think fitness issues with other players is hurting that.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
OK, fair enough. But they're definitely part of the rotation. And they should have toured the Windies as they are the most experienced and still in-form bowlers. Yet they didn't. And England haven't adequately told us why they weren't on that tour, not apparently them.
 
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