England players and selection discussion thread

[Blenkinsop]

Seems a bit weird that he's leapfrogged all the other "averages 35 but has a bit of pace" candidates the ECB have been cultivating over the last few years -- Mahmood, Garton, Connors, Chappell etc.

 

[Starfighter]

Seems a bit weird that he's leapfrogged all the other "averages 35 but has a bit of pace" candidates the ECB have been cultivating over the last few years -- Mahmood, Garton, Connors, Chappell etc.

Are any of them fit enough to play a test? Plus Tongue is on the taller side.

Saw some comments elsewhere on the internet to the effect that the ECB rates pace and height over accuracy when is comes to up and coming bowlers. Which beyond 128 km/h is the wrong approach IMO. Plenty of great bowlers who weren't tall or fast, can't think of any who weren't accurate.

 

[FBU]

Looking forward to seeing how he bowls at Lords with their slope for the first time.

2019 Stone, Archer
2021 Robinson
2022 Mahmood, Fisher, Potts, J Overton

Sometimes a bowler is said to be fast but on the 5th day they are bowling the same as the rest of the bowlers. Only bowler that can keep up his speeds is Mark Wood. 90-95mph.

 

[Third_Man]

Never played at Lords in a first class career going back to 2016. 20 first class matches over the last 5 years. Only played twice against Middlesex both at home. Is he injury prone like all the others?

Should send the Aussie data analysts into over drive.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Never played at Lords in a first class career going back to 2016. 20 first class matches over the last 5 years. Only played twice against Middlesex both at home. Is he injury prone like all the others?

Yes

 

[KinPer]

Are any of them fit enough to play a test? Plus Tongue is on the taller side.

Saw some comments elsewhere on the internet to the effect that the ECB rates pace and height over accuracy when is comes to up and coming bowlers. Which beyond 128 km/h is the wrong approach IMO. Plenty of great bowlers who weren't tall or fast, can't think of any who weren't accurate.

But if a player has pace, he is immediately assessed for accuracy

 

[Blenkinsop]

Really don't understand why Tongue has been picked ahead of say Gus Atkinson, who averages 15 in CC div 1 this year, has pace, and can bat.

 

[Starfighter]

But if a player has pace, he is immediately assessed for accuracy

Not a gotcha, and not even understanding my point.

 

[Nintendo]

Really don't understand why Tongue has been picked ahead of say Gus Atkinson, who averages 15 in CC div 1 this year, has pace, and can bat.

Is having players from Surrey like having players from Victoria in the team insofar that if you have more then one of them in the team at a specific point in time the team sucks? Pope's the first decent #3 England have had in nearly a decade and he's your designated Surrey spot. Maybe that's why Sammy C isn't being called up and foakes got dropped?

 

[Nintendo]

Are any of them fit enough to play a test? Plus Tongue is on the taller side.

Saw some comments elsewhere on the internet to the effect that the ECB rates pace and height over accuracy when is comes to up and coming bowlers. Which beyond 128 km/h is the wrong approach IMO. Plenty of great bowlers who weren't tall or fast, can't think of any who weren't accurate.

Maybe they just think it's easier to take someone who's got a bit more pace and/or is taller and make them more accurate than vice versa? It's not like England are exactly lacking in the latter with broad, Robinson, Anderson and potts (not 100% sure if he's a bit quicker, saw him take a ton of wickets on roads last county season), plus woakes, who does all that, and bats.

Leaving woakes out for potts is the weirder call, IMO. Woakes has absurd stats at lords, hasn't played much redball cricket recently, and will have a huge part to play in the Ashes if stokes isn't fit. He should be getting all the gametime he can.

 

[Blenkinsop]

Is having players from Surrey like having players from Victoria in the team insofar that if you have more then one of them in the team at a specific point in time the team sucks? Pope's the first decent #3 England have had in nearly a decade and he's your designated Surrey spot. Maybe that's why Sammy C isn't being called up and foakes got dropped?

I can see why Sam Curran isn't in the Test squad. If the qualification for being a Test all-rounder is that you have to be Test standard at one of the disciplines, does he make that cut? He's a fifth bowler who will make the occasional decent knock at number 8. And he definitely isn't quick if that's what they are looking for.

Would much rather they gave Atkinson or Lawes a go, they both look seriously good.

 

[Nintendo]

I can see why Sam Curran isn't in the Test squad. If the qualification for being a Test all-rounder is that you have to be Test standard at one of the disciplines, does he make that cut? He's a fifth bowler who will make the occasional decent knock at number 8. And he definitely isn't quick if that's what they are looking for.

Would much rather they gave Atkinson or Lawes a go, they both look seriously good.

Curran's batting has come on a bit recently. Hasn't played that much redball in that time, but last county season he made 450 runs @75 including a maiden FC hundred. In that same period he made 236 runs @29 and a sr of 145 in the 2022 blast, 192 runs @27 and a sr of 135 in the 2022 hundred, 276 runs @ 27.5 and a sr of 135 in the most recent IPL, and 85 runs in 3 digs at 28.33 this blast season while batting top 6 in pretty much every game he played in those 4 comps.

I don't think he's good enough to bat top 6 in the test side or anything, but I think his batting has come on enough to bat 7 in the test side and operate as a fifth bowler if stokes isn't fit to bowl and they don't wanna play woakes or want the left arm angle he offers while swinging it at home instead of woakes who's very similiar to broad, anderson and robinson in terms of MO (not saying you can't play those four, but it seems like england like having a wood/overton type player in the bowling attack if they can to offer a point of difference when the deck is a bit flatter.

 

[Blenkinsop]

SCurran is a great T20 and limited over player for sure. I'm less convinced about him as a red ball cricketer, especially with the bat. Do you really want someone coming in at seven who only has one FC hundred to his name? He'd be the ideal person to send out when you're 450-5 and want quick runs. But can he hold an end up and make tough runs when you're 150-5? From what I've seen I just don't think his technique is up to it. Could he for instance do what Stokes did at Headingley where he blocked about 60 balls in the evening session?

 

[wpdavid]

I think the biggest problem with SCurran is that he barely gets to play any red ball cricket nowadays. Last season was unusual because he was returning from an injury that caused him to miss the IPL. This year he missed the first block of matches and may well miss the September matches due to England's white-ball commitments. Maybe he'll play in the late June/early July CC games whilst the Ashes are happening, but that's about it. This sort of schedule is probably why his red ball game hasn't come on since the 2018 India series. Which is a shame because, at that point, he looked the likeliest bloke to eventually replace Stokes at 6th batsman and 4th bowler if his game kicked on as it may have done in a more conducive bundle of matches.

 

[Third_Man]

I read Tongue is playing because he impressed McCullum in the nets.

(Whereas presumably those not invited to net, didn't impress)........

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I read Tongue is playing because he impressed McCullum in the nets.

(Whereas presumably those not invited to net, didn't impress)........

Easy to impress in the nets when you're bowling at Crawley.

 

[mackembhoy]

Easy to impress in the nets when you're bowling at Crawley.

I seen the article from the BBC specifically mentioned giving Crawley a torrid time.

Isn't that just anyone with arms?

 

[kevinw]

Scurran is a fine cricketer, great moxie, but at Test level is too much of a bits and pieces cricketer. He'll be a luxury, a passenger in most Tests. I'd back Woakes to score more runs/take more wickets. I think he'll ultimately be a top six bat for Surrey and bowl less and less often.

 

[greg]

I seen the article from the BBC specifically mentioned giving Crawley a torrid time.

Isn't that just anyone with arms?

Well quite. In any sensible world should just add to the case to drop Crawley, not pick the net bowler.

 

[KinPer]

Scurran is a fine cricketer, great moxie, but at Test level is too much of a bits and pieces cricketer. He'll be a luxury, a passenger in most Tests. I'd back Woakes to score more runs/take more wickets. I think he'll ultimately be a top six bat for Surrey and bowl less and less often.

I must be missing something. If he will be in the top 6, why should he play less often? Sorry for the silly newbie question.