England players and selection discussion thread

[Flem274*]

I completely agree with your general point, but with Crawley specifically you’re wading into some shaky ground. It’s long been suspected that ‘team culture’ is used throughout English cricket as an excuse to select white upper class guys over objectively better players. It’s quite central to the Yorkshire scandal, and there was a media scandal arising from some members of the press talking about Archer in exactly those terms.

Having dropped Hameed and stuck with Crawley, any vague hint of that kind of talk will potentially cause some massive PR problems. They kinda do have to just select like Cricket 22 selectors for a while.

Hmm, well they've brought in the wrong coach for it. McCullum is from the rougher side of Dunedin iirc. He's pretty far from the model English establishment man in general.

I think McCullum has enough to drop Crawley if he wants without making it Cricket 22 selection, especially since he won't frame it as "you suck" but more "you need to get out of town and just bat, clear your head".

I suspect he won't want to give up on his new charge so soon into his own time with the team though. This is a man who drove the Ish "fresh from under 19s and average 50 in FC" Sodhi selection for over 10 tests as a total passenger who had to be hidden because McHesson wanted to develop a good leggie.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I was discussing Robinson on the current tour thread and thought I should move it here. I occasionally come across comments that are less than sympathetic about his ongoing injuries and/or lack of fitness, but missed the original stories. Can someone fill me in please?

I don't know all the issues but the murmurings about his fitness I think trace back to the Ashes tour where he missed the fourth game, returned for the fifth but broke down again. He hadn't been expected to play the fifth Test. Supposedly COverton was lined up to play and Robinson hadn't been training or preparing for it, but suddenly declared himself fit on the morning of the Test. England changed plans to fit him in (because, well, Craig Overton) and obviously it didn't work out.

You'd think the set up should bear some of the blame for that but one of the coaches came out and publicly slated Robinson on record, possibly before the Test was even over. Said Robinson needed to learn how to manage his fitness if he was gonna continue as an international bowler. Strongly implied he didn't work hard enough.

Robinson hasn't played since, for a variety of reasons, which adds traction to that take. The fact he was picked for the WIndies tour (but wasn't fit to play) while Anderson and Broad were left out was a bad look too (though obviously not his fault the other two were dropped).

 

[kevinw]

Robinson has a back injury at the moment but you question how many of the recent injuries would have been avoided or less trivial if he worked harder/took care of himself. Farbrace is his stepdad so I'm surprised he'd be so slack but then the Farbrace and Bayliss era seemed pretty laidback. He may need a rocket up him. He's an absolute shoo-in if fit so he's wasting his own career.

 

[Chubb]

On the plus side Crawley the Chosen One now has a lower test average as opener than @Prince EWS favourite Trevor Gripper.

 

[Chubb]

Robinson’s career has been derailed multiple times because of his attitude. He was sacked by his first county - Yorkshire, of all places - for unprofessional behaviour. Probably would have played for England before he did if it wasn’t an issue. He made a lot of comments about growing up etc when he finally was selected.

I know I bag Crawley all the time but there’s no doubt he works hard, has a good attitude and is very professional. But unlike Robinson he just isn’t good enough for test cricket right now and he has been treated differently to other young batsmen who don’t share his very privileged background. You can make a cricketing argument for it, sure. But what would Haseeb Hameed or Dan Lawrence do if they were told they’d be selected no matter what?

 

[Pothas]

Crawley definitely gets dropped. It doesn't matter how much you talk about sticking with a player there always comes a point when them being left out becomes inevitable, pretty much always described as 'for their own good.'

Always feels like England should be sticking with openers longer but the performances just make it so difficult after a while, at least since the early post-Strauss ones in Compton and Carberry who clearly should have been given longer.

Burns is probably the other one, his initial dropping felt temporary so was quite surprised he didn't go to the West Indies.

 

[GIMH]

To be honest I would have Burns back without much thought

 

[GIMH]

We do need to do something about the tail but I’d probably go Compton/Burns, then the current batting order 3-6, Foakes. The bowlers all being bunnies is a problem but if you have your best bowlers on the field the net gain should be there in facing lower totals.

Id like to think there’s longer term improvements we can make but openers are the only glaring hole this summer where you think we could have better on the field (IMO)

 

[Flem274*]

To be honest I would have Burns back without much thought

He and Sibley should never have been dropped. When he was about to be dropped the suggested players (Hameed, Crawley, some other guys who couldn't score as many County runs as them) did not inspire me.

They weren't exactly great but they had shown the ability to score against good teams on occasion and were very handy at getting starts and seeing off the new ball. Someone like Compton right now could come in for them but not the other dudes.

 

[GIMH]

Burns averages 30. If we could get Joe Root out at 60-2 routinely i would be happy with that, relatively speaking

 

[Shady Slim]

Having dropped Hameed and stuck with Crawley, any vague hint of that kind of talk will potentially cause some massive PR problems. They kinda do have to just select like Cricket 22 selectors for a while.

yeah

 

[OverratedSanity]

To be honest I would have Burns back without much thought

Scored two hundreds against Cummins and Hazelwood didn't he? It's a little sad that he's probably the best opener they've had recently but he's not crawley levels of useless.

 

[greg]

He and Sibley should never have been dropped. When he was about to be dropped the suggested players (Hameed, Crawley, some other guys who couldn't score as many County runs as them) did not inspire me.

They weren't exactly great but they had shown the ability to score against good teams on occasion and were very handy at getting starts and seeing off the new ball. Someone like Compton right now could come in for them but not the other dudes.

I would say that Sibley was far, far too limited and lacked the ability to capitalise on any benefits gained from getting through the new ball. It’s easy to elevate him above others who increase the chances of England being 20-2 every innings, but he put massive pressure on the middle and lower order in a different way.

 

[grecian]

I'd be very happy with Burns and Compton for the first Test match against South Africa.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I really don't see why people think Compton is the answer tbh. Having a good county season for sure but in a batting friendly year, don't think there is even close to enough of a sample size on him to suggest he should be anywhere near Test cricket at this stage. He's already 28, only played about half a dozen games county for an average of under 20 before this year despite being around the Notts setup for a while, none of this suggests his current county performances are at all sustainable in the long term

 

[grecian]

I really don't see why people think Compton is the answer tbh. Having a good county season for sure but in a batting friendly year, don't think there is even close to enough of a sample size on him to suggest he should be anywhere near Test cricket at this stage. He's already 28, only played about half a dozen games county for an average of under 20 before this year despite being around the Notts setup for a while, none of this suggests his current county performances are at all sustainable in the long term

We are not talking a normal opening batting era for England though, we are talking a time when everyone is rotten, and an almost entirely unprecedented start to a season. Admittedtly he probably will be the next on the carousel of rubbishness, but deserves his seat.

 

[kevinw]

Interesting section in Vithushan Ehantharajah's Cricinfo piece

He attended a fee-paying school - Tonbridge School, in Kent - and his father, Terry, was at one point the fifth-richest Briton on the Sunday Times rich list after switching one floor for another when he became a city trader following years as a carpet fitter.

That level of affluence meant that he could invest more than time and effort into his son's cricket. Crawley was able to buy a flat on Kent's St Lawrence ground in Canterbury for regular access to their training facilities, and pay for trips to India and Perth to improve his game against spin and pace.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

We are not talking a normal opening batting era for England though, we are talking a time when everyone is rotten, and an almost entirely unprecedented start to a season. Admittedtly he probably will be the next on the carousel of rubbishness, but deserves his seat.

I fundimentally believe you need more than one good domestic season to deserve anything in terms of international recognition, even allowing for the mediocre at best nature of the current options you guys have

 

[Uppercut]

I fundimentally believe you need more than one good domestic season to deserve anything in terms of international recognition, even allowing for the mediocre at best nature of the current options you guys have

There are no openers with more than one good domestic season.

 

[kevinw]

There are no openers with more than one good domestic season.

Burns had about five decent seasons on the bounce before he was picked. He probably still is the best option but runs are the only currency at Test level and he's only done marginally better than the other guys. Sibley deserved his selection and started superbly but really fell away when teams choked off his scoring options. But even then his legside game was worked out when teams played a short midwicket because he tended to chip the shot off his legs a little.

They've been the two best openers in the CC and have both fallen short.