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England ODI Team

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Well, yes, thats what I was getting at. There's no point in England attacking in the powerplays, because they've got nobody good enough to score runs doing it. In an ideal world, Prior will turn into the new Gilchrist and he'll take the powerplays at 8-an-over, but in reality, none of England's batsmen have the ability to do so.
No, they don't. So they get to 70-1 after 20 overs and all the commentators are saying "England should've attacked more", and so those in position try to do it, and they can't, so they start scoring no runs, so they're dropped...

At the end of the day, scoring slowly in ODIs is only marginally better than not scoring at all. Both are droppable offences.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Davies doesn't open in the First-Class game and is almost certain never to do so. He's a manufactured one-day opener, same as Mark Waugh, Sanath Jayasuriya (though he went-on to be successful opening in the longer game too but was a flat-track bully nonetheless), Sourav Ganguly and many others.

The one difference though is that they're not English. No Englishman has ever done it with success in ODIs.

If Davies is to play ODIs, I'd prefer he bat four or five. Ergo, I'd prefer he bat three or four for Worcs and it's disappointed me that they've allowed England to go Gilchrist-o-maniac again by putting Davies in to open for them.
The fact that no Englishman has done it before is irrelevant. If Davies is good enough he's good enough, and his domestic performances suggest he is. And Worcs should only bat him where they want to, where they feel it would benefit them. And thus far they have.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Davies doesn't open in the First-Class game and is almost certain never to do so. He's a manufactured one-day opener, same as Mark Waugh, Sanath Jayasuriya (though he went-on to be successful opening in the longer game too but was a flat-track bully nonetheless), Sourav Ganguly and many others.

The one difference though is that they're not English. No Englishman has ever done it with success in ODIs.

If Davies is to play ODIs, I'd prefer he bat four or five. Ergo, I'd prefer he bat three or four for Worcs and it's disappointed me that they've allowed England to go Gilchrist-o-maniac again by putting Davies in to open for them.
So who is he going to replace in middle order, who is going to open. Don's see the point in overcomplicating it, the man had a brilliant season opening in OD's yet you feel the need to put him in what should be a senior position - 4. I think Davies is way more of an OD prospect than Prior and the only position for him where he can fit in the team is opener.
 

ozone

First Class Debutant
At the end of the day, scoring slowly in ODIs is only marginally better than not scoring at all. Both are droppable offences.
TBH, sometimes worse.

I agree with zaremba that Strauss will have a much better series than a lot of people think he will, but I really don't like the idea of Davies opening either. Hence why I left him out of my side as I don't see him fitting into the middle order ATM.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The fact that no Englishman has done it before is irrelevant. If Davies is good enough he's good enough, and his domestic performances suggest he is. And Worcs should only bat him where they want to, where they feel it would benefit them. And thus far they have.
It'd benefit them to bat him four IMO. The fact no Englishman has done something before isn't irrelevant in my book TBH - it suggests there are pitfalls which pitfall for all. And there are - batting at the top of the order in England in ODIs is often more difficult than batting there elsewhere. Generally, you need to be good enough in FC cricket to do it in OD cricket.

Davies' domestic performances, currently comprised of 1 good season, suggest very little. I agree however that if he manages to repeat the dose next season they suggest a little more.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
So who is he going to replace in middle order, who is going to open. Don's see the point in overcomplicating it, the man had a brilliant season opening in OD's yet you feel the need to put him in what should be a senior position - 4. I think Davies is way more of an OD prospect than Prior and the only position for him where he can fit in the team is opener.
Davies might well not fit in as opener though, that's the point. Whereas he could perfectly possibly do a better job at four - in the long-term - than the likes of Bopara.

There's no reason four has to be a "senior" position BTW. Any more than opening does.
 

ozone

First Class Debutant
I think Davies is way more of an OD prospect than Prior and the only position for him where he can fit in the team is opener.
Ridiculous logic IMO. Just because a player is likely to have a long term future in the side, doesn't mean you chuck him into a situation where he is unlikely to succeed. I would be very suprised to see him open in the series.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I actually think if he gets picked and doesn't open it will be a bit silly, seems as he is being picked on the back of opening performances.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Ridiculous logic IMO. Just because a player is likely to have a long term future in the side, doesn't mean you chuck him into a situation where he is unlikely to succeed. I would be very suprised to see him open in the series.
Is it, he's not any less likely to fail than Prior. I also, would be surprised if he even plays, although I do think this is the series to throw him in, Prior is a nothing player and don't see why he has a place in the side. Like I said about a million times its the Windies, did you not see our last OD game, this is the series to throw him in and test the guy's charecter no other WK is more deserving of a place.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
I actually think if he gets picked and doesn't open it will be a bit silly, seems as he is being picked on the back of opening performances.
Yeah, there is a need for a aggressive opener and therefore it makes no sense to play a young aggressive opener out of position and away from where they made their name and where the team need is.

If he plays he needs to open.
 

ozone

First Class Debutant
I think we change keepers too much anyway and if we drop Prior for Davies now, its only a matter of time before Prior will be back in. IMO, its more likely to do him more harm than good in the long run if Davies is thrown in as an opener now. Of course, I haven't seen huge amounts of Davies and may be underestimating him significantly, but although impressive, he didn't look quite like a world beater yet.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Is it, he's not any less likely to fail than Prior. I also, would be surprised if he even plays, although I do think this is the series to throw him in, Prior is a nothing player and don't see why he has a place in the side. Like I said about a million times its the Windies, did you not see our last OD game, this is the series to throw him in and test the guy's charecter no other WK is more deserving of a place.
Very wide of the mark.
 

ozone

First Class Debutant
Am i? Don't quite see what Prior adds to the OD squad, he himself doesn't even know his role, always looks undecided in ODI's and always gets out in stupid ways.
Well, he has clearly been given the job by England to pinch hit in the powerplays. I think, of all the players in the side, his role is one of the clearest. Whether he is good enough or not to perform his role is debatable...
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Am i? Don't quite see what Prior adds to the OD squad, he himself doesn't even know his role, always looks undecided in ODI's and always gets out in stupid ways.
Oh he's so lazily written off, time and again. Everyone loves to slate him and for that reason he's become an easy target. In fact he's a highly talented and accomplished batsman and a much more competent keeper than he is generally given credit for. He's a fighter with a good temperament. I'd like to see him drop down the order because I don't think opening is his best position in ODI cricket.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Well, he has clearly been given the job by England to pinch hit in the powerplays. I think, of all the players in the side, his role is one of the clearest. Whether he is good enough or not to perform his role is debatable...
He certainly doesn't play as if he knows this, all he does is take one agricultural shot every three overs that barely ever works then goes back in to his shell.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Oh he's so lazily written off, time and again. Everyone loves to slate him and for that reason he's become an easy target. In fact he's a highly talented and accomplished batsman and a much more competent keeper than he is generally given credit for. He's a fighter with a good temperament. I'd like to see him drop down the order because I don't think opening is his best position in ODI cricket.
Suppose my view of him has been influenced by the fact that he doesn't open well for England, but can't really drop him down the order without putting Bell up top and Strauss and Bell opening would be a recipe for a disaster without a doubt.
 

ozone

First Class Debutant
He certainly doesn't play as if he knows this, all he does is take one agricultural shot every three overs that barely ever works then goes back in to his shell.
Thats just not true. That is the kind of view you'd expect to read in some ****ty article in one of the tabloids about why Prior is crap. People forget that he was a good enough batsman to be selected for as a batsman in a third of his ODI's, although he hasn't been for a couple of years.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Suppose my view of him has been influenced by the fact that he doesn't open well for England, but can't really drop him down the order without putting Bell up top and Strauss and Bell opening would be a recipe for a disaster without a doubt.
Personally I quite like Bell at the top of the order. I don't think Prior's a particularly good bet as his opening partner but neither is Strauss. I'd have both of them in the middle order.
 

Jigga988

State 12th Man
Personally I quite like Bell at the top of the order. I don't think Prior's a particularly good bet as his opening partner but neither is Strauss. I'd have both of them in the middle order.
You've pretty much exhausted all opening options then, who would open with Bell then?
 

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