England A to play in India's Duleep Trophy

[Richard]

But it's not the roughly second-best team of England players.
IMO they would benefit more from First-Class cricket than those in the "young" group.

 

[Neil Pickup]

ACADEMY SQUAD

Kadeer Ali (Worcs)
Simon Francis (Somst)
Alex Gidman (Gloucs)
Simon Jones (Glam)
Shaftab Khalid (Worcs)
Michael Lumb (Yorks)
Sajjid Mahmood (Lancs)
Graham Napier (Essex)
Scott Newman (Surrey)
Kevin Pietersen (Notts),
+Matt Prior (Sussex),
Bilal Shafayat (Notts)
James Tredwell (Kent)
Graeme Wagg (Warks)

LIKELY XI (well, not likely, but my best guess)

*Newman
Shafayat
Kadeer
Pietersen
Lumb
Gidman
+Prior
Tredwell
Napier
Khalid
Francis

 

[Salamuddin]

Maybe they'll face testing spinning conditions but they'll not actually face spinners of an especially larger quality than they do at home.
It would, IMO, be more beneficial for England A to play in the Duleep Trophy than The Academy.


__________________


And what would you know about the quality of spinners in the Duleep Trophy ?

Lot of young players in the Indian zonal teams....I'm sure you wouldn't have seen a lot of them.

 

[luckyeddie]

And what would you know about the quality of spinners in the Duleep Trophy ?

About the same as you know about the up-and-coming English talent, I should guess.

 

[Pratters]

The Duleep Trophy will have quality Indian domestic players. Its 5 teams, one from each zone. Now the international players dont often play due to the internaitonal matches but the domestic players are masters at playing at Indian surfaces, scoring at averages above 50 first class and one good spinner in each state side is present. So the quality of spinners in the Duleep Trophy is never in doubt. The players also look to leave a mark as the Ranji Trophy (27-28 teams) does not often give every one a chance to leave an impression on the national selectors.

It will be a very good learning process for the English provided they send their best squad. Even Australia got overplayed by a state side, Mumbai. These are Zonal sides which are pretty strong. So it will provide for a good contest and grea learning curve for the English. It will also mean more interest by the local people who NEVER come to domestic matches because of lack of marketing and spnsors for these matches.

 

[marc71178]

It would, IMO, be more beneficial for England A to play in the Duleep Trophy than The Academy.

There is no such team in existance though.

And why should players in their late 20's/early 30's get the experience that will not serve the National side long-term?

Why not give those under 24/25 that opportunity?

 

[Pratters]

here is no such team in existance though. And why should players in their late 20's/early 30's get the experience that will not serve the National side long-term? Why not give those under 24/25 that opportunity?

England A - second best English team which can make the squad. It is another matter that the players in their early 20s dont seem to get into the fringes of being selected for selection (Anderson is obviously an exception).

Its good to have the young players be given a chance too but they would struggle very badly in the Duleep Trophy. They could benefit if the matches were vs some State sides or players of their calibre. A young inexperienced English team can come to India like Australia A is scheduled to come afterwards and play some matches but Duleep Trophy would be a tough call for them which would only demoralise them.

 

[marc71178]

England A - second best English team which can make the squad.

I know that, but that team no longer exists in favour of the IMO more worthwhile Academy.

Its good to have the young players be given a chance too but they would struggle very badly in the Duleep Trophy.

I reckon the results are not the idea behind the participation.

 

[Pratters]

I reckon the results are not the idea behind the participation

Yes, and a proper England A team would also lose but I believe they would benefit more as they would not lose as badly as a young team. It would be highly demoroloising for a young inexperienced team to play in the Duleep Trophy. It would be like a Kent or Glamorgan asked to play vs Australia in Australia (not exactly but yuo get the idea)

know that, but that team no longer exists in favour of the IMO more worthwhile Academy

It cant be helped if the selectors put the wrong people in the England A squad and do not get in the right players who they think would make the England squad in the end

A young team as you are suggesting could do well to play vs the state sides or the likes rather than Duleep sides with players vying national selection berths, hungry and desperate to impress.

 

[luckyeddie]

Well, there's one absolute certainty for the full England side in the squad next year and a few 'probables' within 2-3 years - provided they get the necessary experience, of course.

Why is it that India can produce test players at 16 or 17 yet you (Pratyush) begrudge England not sending an 'A' team (of 25+ year olds) over as opposed to the (IMO) splendid idea of giving the youngsters a chance to get experience of a higher standard of cricket TOGETHER?

The whole idea of an academy is to fast-track players of some potential, rather than the old 'tried and tested and failed' method of a couple of years in the seconds, a few first XI games, maybe an 'A' team tour by the time they are 23 or 24 then just possibly a run-out in the test side at 25 or 26?

It's an experiment which might fall flat on its face - but we won't know until it has been tried.

 

[Pratters]

Why is it that India can produce test players at 16 or 17 yet you (Pratyush) begrudge England not sending an 'A' team (of 25+ year olds) over as opposed to the (IMO) splendid idea of giving the youngsters a chance to get experience of a higher standard of cricket TOGETHER?

I dont have problems with England sending 15 year olds or 30 year olds as part of their A side. I would like the best players likely to come into the team as part of such a tour like India sent an A side to the Windies recently and it turned out useful for the players looming in the wings for international selection.

I said England A and marc went on to say England doesnt even have an A squad in the absolute sense of the word. Thats a flaw from the English selectors point of view.

An academy side being sent for a Duleep Trophy would not work as the competition for the young side would be too tough for them to learn a lot. Quality players waiting in the wings (not necessarily tried and tested and failed players) should go in. It would mean a good standard for the Duleep trophy and a good learning for the fringe players. Its another matter if you have 30 year olds waiting in the wings of an English squad selection and dont have enough youngsters. I have no problem with 30 year olds making the team as Walsh and Waugh have shown people can carry on into their late 30s but England seems to be producing James Andersons as an exception rather than a rule.

 

[raju]

Graveney said today that the A squad has still to be selected. So I assume from this that it is not just an academy team.
I too thought the A tours had been abandoned but it seems they have been reintroduced overnight. This from an organisation that is always on about how they have to plan for the future.
The A tours should never have been scrapped...very useful overseas experiance IMO.

I imagine the best of the academy mixed in with the likes of Kabir Ali and Strauss will make up the A squad.

 

[marc71178]

Yes, and a proper England A team would also lose but I believe they would benefit more as they would not lose as badly as a young team. It would be highly demoroloising for a young inexperienced team to play in the Duleep Trophy. It would be like a Kent or Glamorgan asked to play vs Australia in Australia (not exactly but yuo get the idea)

Methinks you vastly overestimate the strength of Indian domestic Cricket in that post.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Pratyush, how do you think Sri Lanka A would fare in the Duleep Trophy?

 

[Pratters]

Methinks you vastly overestimate the strength of Indian domestic Cricket in that post

I dont. The Duleep Trophy is comprised of the best 5 teams from each zone. The batsmen are very difficult to dismiss in India and many of them average over 50 in first lass cricket, vastly due to the pitches.

They contain the best spinners from each zone and th English arent great at handling spin either. These players are vying for national selection because of which they perform to the best of their ability. Duleep trophy sides, even without the international players, are very strong, specially as they are adept at playing in India in the longer version of the game.

Pratyush, how do you think Sri Lanka A would fare in the Duleep Trophy?

I hope the question wasnt asked sarcastically. Sri Lanka A just defeated India A and Pakistan A in the one day tournament in Calcutta itself. Sri Lanka A consists of players like Russell Arnold and other good players who can play in turning pitches which an England Colts or Academy team certainly would struggle to. An England A may learn some thing but they would struggle a bit too.

But a Sri Lanka A participating in the Duleep trophy would mean draws as the pitches are batting strips, Sri Lanka A doesnt have gr8 bowlers and neither do the Duleep Trophy teams apart from some spinners whom I am sure Sri Lanka A can handle. So yeah, draw drab boring matches as is usually the case.

 

[Neil Pickup]

The question was asked as a leader because England Academy played - and matched - Sri Lanka A over the course of last winter's programme in both 1-day and 3-day games, with the hosts coming out marginally on top, and England having much the better of the Sri Lankan U19s.

 

[Pratters]

The question was asked as a leader because England Academy played - and matched - Sri Lanka A over the course of last winter's programme in both 1-day and 3-day games, with the hosts coming out marginally on top, and England having much the better of the Sri Lankan U19s.

These matches were held in Sri Lanka? Then it clearly shows how bad the English selectors lead by Greaveny are. If players from an English second string side can perform against quality players from Sri Lanka A, in their home nation, they should indeed by vying for ebing selected for the National team. Whichever side plays, they should be the ones who are vying for spotd in the English team when they play Duleep Tropy squads, else they will struggle real badly. England A should ideally comprise of the best English players eyeing for spots in the national team which doesnt usually happen. It is said that if Tendulkar was an English Player, he would have made his debut when he was 28-29. How James Anderson managed to get selected at such a young age in England still astonishes me.

 

[Neil Pickup]

These matches were held in Sri Lanka? Then it clearly shows how bad the English selectors lead by Greaveny are. If players from an English second string side can perform against quality players from Sri Lanka A, in their home nation, they should indeed by vying for ebing selected for the National team. Whichever side plays, they should be the ones who are vying for spotd in the English team when they play Duleep Tropy squads, else they will struggle real badly. England A should ideally comprise of the best English players eyeing for spots in the national team which doesnt usually happen. It is said that if Tendulkar was an English Player, he would have made his debut when he was 28-29. How James Anderson managed to get selected at such a young age in England still astonishes me.

WRT Tendulkar, I think that's a little extreme :rolleyes:

English selection policies have changed immensely in the last few years - for the better - I think.

I'm not quite sure why the are selectors bad if the Academy side is doing well? England A in years gone by was too full of players whose chances of full selection had gone, now it is not.

 

[marc71178]

These players are vying for national selection because of which they perform to the best of their ability.

Whereas the academy players are clearly there for the sightseeing and partying?

 

[chris.hinton]

if this has not been picked yet i think this could be the 15

Key
Wagh
Smith
Bell
Solanki
Shayfat
Foster
Wallace
Napier
Blackwell
Jason Brown
Jones
Kabir Ali
Tudor
Keedy

Kadder Ali on Standby