England 'A' in the UAE etc

[12th Man]

not including stats, he really is not good enough for england. Apart from his first year or two, he's not taken county cricket apart has he?

 

[dinu23]

I don't know what the english selectors see in Clark, he's just not up to international level.

 

[wpdavid]

They watch the player, and look at how he plays, not how many runs he scored.

Just look at 2 of England's top order who both average over 40 but when they were picked their domestic records were extremely poor...

"Extremely poor" is overstating it, if we're talking about Vaughan & Tresco. Their county performances were not as bad as some would have you believe, especially when you remember that about half of Vaughan's innings were played on the relatively bowler friendly conditions in his home county. The point is, in the late 1990's, there weren't young batters producing outstanding performances in the CC, so Fletcher had to take something of punt. Remember that Vaughan was one of 3 new batters taken to SA in 1999, and even his county captain didn't think he was ready, so it wasn't really a clear cut case of closely watching him and making an educated decision that he was a test player. For a variety of reasons, not least improved wickets in the CC, the better batsmen can now stand out more easily by doing what Bell & Key did last year. It won't always guarantee success at test level, especially if their temprament is on a par with Ramps & Hick, but you can't ignore it. Other wise selection just becomes a case of picking the flavour of the month irrespective of whether their game merits it.

 

[Richard]

They watch the player, and look at how he plays, not how many runs he scored.

So style is more important than substance now?

Just look at 2 of England's top order who both average over 40 but when they were picked their domestic records were extremely poor...

And just look at how 1 of those 2 has averaged in the high 50s in First-Class-cricket since his Test-debut - and look at how the other is one of the luckiest batsmen knocking around...
And while you're at it, you might look at how the rest of the England top-order of the last 15 years (with the exception of David Gower) have shown that this 1 lucky player is an anomaly.

 

[marc71178]

not including stats, he really is not good enough for england. Apart from his first year or two, he's not taken county cricket apart has he?

He's only played about 15 or 16 FC games, and is averaging in the mid-30s.

He's won the Denis Compton award twice in a row.

So maybe he has got some talent.

 

[marc71178]

So style is more important than substance now?

An average in domestic cricket of 35 with good technique is far better than one of 45 without

And just look at how 1 of those 2 has averaged in the high 50s in First-Class-cricket since his Test-debut - and look at how the other is one of the luckiest batsmen knocking around...
And while you're at it, you might look at how the rest of the England top-order of the last 15 years (with the exception of David Gower) have shown that this 1 lucky player is an anomaly.

And then look at Neil's correlation research...

 

[Richard]

"Extremely poor" is overstating it, if we're talking about Vaughan & Tresco. Their county performances were not as bad as some would have you believe, especially when you remember that about half of Vaughan's innings were played on the relatively bowler friendly conditions in his home county. The point is, in the late 1990's, there weren't young batters producing outstanding performances in the CC, so Fletcher had to take something of punt. Remember that Vaughan was one of 3 new batters taken to SA in 1999, and even his county captain didn't think he was ready, so it wasn't really a clear cut case of closely watching him and making an educated decision that he was a test player. For a variety of reasons, not least improved wickets in the CC, the better batsmen can now stand out more easily by doing what Bell & Key did last year. It won't always guarantee success at test level, especially if their temprament is on a par with Ramps & Hick, but you can't ignore it. Other wise selection just becomes a case of picking the flavour of the month irrespective of whether their game merits it.

And Byas had a point with regards Vaughan not being ready... after 10 Tests he still only averaged 27. Still, fortunately he soon became ready.
As for Vaughan and Headingley, I think you're understating it a bit with the "relatively" bowler-friendly conditions. If Vaughan had had his home ground at The Oval, Chelmsford or Taunton, for instance, I'd not have been surprised if his average was pushing 40.

 

[Richard]

An average in domestic cricket of 35 with good technique is far better than one of 45 without

And normally the better technique will result in the better average...

And then look at Neil's correlation research...

Which shows a lot about the fact that there's almost always a difference between domestic and international cricket; that there are a few who've struggled in Tests despite doing well domestically; and that there are hardly any who've had success in internationals without success domestically...

 

[Richard]

He's only played about 15 or 16 FC games, and is averaging in the mid-30s.

He's won the Denis Compton award twice in a row.

So maybe he has got some talent.

Or maybe the Denis Compton award doesn't neccesarily mean much.
Look at those who've won similar awards down the years.

 

[marc71178]

So you're now claiming to know more than the County Coaches who nominate their individual players based on what they've seen then...

Or maybe, just maybe, he actually has some talent.

 

[superkingdave]

Chris Schofield won the NBC Dennis Compton Award 3 years running. Rikki Clarke has also won it, Kadeer Ali has won it twice.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Chris Schofield won the NBC Dennis Compton Award 3 years running. Rikki Clarke has also won it, Kadeer Ali has won it twice.

Says it all really

 

[12th Man]

Says it all really

sounds like a curse to me

 

[chris.hinton]

oh well lets hope that neil wins it

 

[dinu23]

England A beat SL combined IX. No real surprises there.

 

[Langeveldt]

oh well lets hope that neil wins it

Nah, he is too good

 

[chekmeout]

England A beat SL combined IX. No real surprises there.

I hope you mean SL combined XI and not IX

 

[Richard]

So you're now claiming to know more than the County Coaches who nominate their individual players based on what they've seen then...

Or maybe, just maybe, he actually has some talent.

Maybe, just maybe, people are wildly optimistic about the talents of their youngsters.

 

[marc71178]

Maybe, just maybe, people are wildly optimistic about the talents of their youngsters.

Or maybe they can select the best prospect of their own players better than someone who's not watched said players?

 

[dinu23]

I hope you mean SL combined XI and not IX

OOPS! a typo.