Drafting Controversial Players: Cronje, Asif etc.

[JOJOXI]

What are your thoughts when it comes to drafting controversial players and voting on teams including them. A couple of questions

* Do you seperate the person's perceived morality from their cricketing abilities when picking a player.
* Would a team including say a Mohammad Asif in a Test draft lead to you not voting for that team even if you thought (as objectively as possible) it was one of the best teams drafted.
* Where do you draw the line? Are there some cricketers with potentially objectionable pasts that you wouldn't hesitate drafting but others you would be far more hesitant drafting.


This question came about after a discussion on Cronje not getting picked in a current ODI draft. Personally I had considered whether to have him as a possible pick at the start of draft depending on how the draft went but chose not too thinking it might be a vote loser.

However, I don't think I'd substantially vote a team down if they had an objectionable character. However, if they were one of 2 teams I thought of as equally good it might end up seperating a tight choice - albeit I don't think I've ever been in a position where I've had that dilemma of choosing between 2 close teams and one of them having a high-profile potentially objectionable character.

 

[Himannv]

I've picked Asif multiple times because he's simply the best bowler available. If I was selecting players based on their morals, there'd be a fair few others I'd have to omit as well.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I was thinking hard about this and then I picked Heath Streak in my team

 

[mr_mister]

Another interesting thing is that when I first started playing drafts, it was only the big ones like Malik, Azhar and Cronje you knew not to pick. You knew some people felt very strongly about them

Now that I think Streak, Cairns, Shakib and a bunch of others have a controversy cloud over them yet are still considered very normal draft picks, it seems a bit silly

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Has anyone picked Roy Gilchrist? If so, really your Cronjes and Asifs are fair game.

 

[AndrewB]

Leslie Hylton (hanged for murdering his wife) has been picked more than once.

 

[JOJOXI]

I've picked Asif multiple times because he's simply the best bowler available. If I was selecting players based on their morals, there'd be a fair few others I'd have to omit as well.

I think that is a very fair point and one I agree with despite not considering someone like a Cronje myself thinking its likely a vote killer.

Do you find any difference (in your opinion) in the number of votes you get with Asif vs without adjusting for quality of the rest of your side vs competition? - of course there is a high degree of subjectivity but intrigued on your view.

 

[Himannv]

Do you find any difference (in your opinion) in the number of votes you get with Asif vs without adjusting for quality of the rest of your side vs competition? - of course there is a high degree of subjectivity but intrigued on your view.

Our voting threads often lack clarity on reasons why someone votes one way vs another so that's hard to say. I feel people value things like 5th bowler options, player quality, team balance, bowling attack strength/synergy, and batting position more, but that's just my guess.

 

[JOJOXI]

Leslie Hylton (hanged for murdering his wife) has been picked more than once.

Not sure I have heard of him, let alone knew this about him but it makes the characters we are talking about here seem saints in comparison!

 

[JOJOXI]

Our voting threads often lack clarity on reasons why someone votes one way vs another so that's hard to say. I feel people value things like 5th bowler options, player quality, team balance, bowling attack strength/synergy, and batting position more, but that's just my guess.

I guess I just meant in terms of you yourself thinking you have a good team and not getting votes with Asif (good team in context of draft rules and other teams) vs a less good team without Asif. But lack of clarity is true I guess - certainly times I've been very happy with my team and done meh and then others I've felt meh about my team and got votes - albeit I guess difference in opinion is what ensures its not a case of specific draft order = win.

 

[JOJOXI]

Has anyone picked Roy Gilchrist? If so, really your Cronjes and Asifs are fair game.

Couldn't find an example of me picking him but feel like I have a while ago - I certainly have considered him at the very least.

Another interesting thing is that when I first started playing drafts, it was only the big ones like Malik, Azhar and Cronje you knew not to pick. You knew some people felt very strongly about them

Now that I think Streak, Cairns, Shakib and a bunch of others have a controversy cloud over them yet are still considered very normal draft picks, it seems a bit silly

It is interesting where we draw the line.

 

[Himannv]

I guess I just meant in terms of you yourself thinking you have a good team and not getting votes with Asif (good team in context of draft rules and other teams) vs a less good team without Asif. But lack of clarity is true I guess - certainly times I've been very happy with my team and done meh and then others I've felt meh about my team and got votes - albeit I guess difference in opinion is what ensures its not a case of specific draft order = win.

I honestly haven't noticed if there is a voter bias against a team with Asif and my feeling is that other factors probably decide it.

Some weeks back there was a post made about having left-hand + right-hand combinations in the team as a factor to determine that drafters vote, which is an interesting and different approach to how you rate balance. I can't say one way or another if morals come into it as well.

I personally look at player quality, a top tier bowling attack, and batting position suitability more than anything else. Everything else is a bonus.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's a bit strange as I would like to not have Mallik or Azhar in my team; but there is Cairns in my most recent team and I have no problem with having Stanley Jackson, a colonist governor about whom I first heard when reading about a revolutionary who tried to assassinate him; in just the team before.....

 

[Himannv]

Leslie Hylton (hanged for murdering his wife) has been picked more than once.

I was curious how that pick came about so I looked it up. Found the entry.

Wife Murderer, Leslie Hylton

 

[howitzer]

I was curious how that pick came about so I looked it up. Found the entry.

I definitely lurked that draft back in the day. Think it was a SCC1 pick?

 

[Himannv]

I definitely lurked that draft back in the day. Think it was a SCC1 pick?

Yeah, but a tongue-in-cheek pick if there ever was one.

 

[howitzer]

As for the question in hand, I would tend to only use it as a tiebreaker between teams I have down as about equal. This actually happened during the Calendar draft, where I had ataraxia and KK basically tied for 5th on team quality and decided to vote for the team that didn't have Azhar and Malik in it. If I had the KK team as superior to the ataraxia one I would definitely still have voted for the KK one. I would say that if you think the controversial player is clearly superior to other options you have available then go with it, but otherwise leave well alone.

All that in mind, I'm genuinely surprised Cronje didn't get picked up as he was a high quality ODI player and I think he would definitely have worked for a few of the teams that were looking for middle order players in that mid 70s strike rate territory.

 

[kingkallis]

Seems like drafters from subcontinent avoids picking the likes of Azhar, Malik, Asif, Cronje (for his links with Indian bookies), Jadeja, Prabhakar, Mongia, Butt yet we happily pick Cairns, Streak, MW, Shakib. Probably because we feel cheated by our own players and that hurts more. Or maybe we don't want others to ignore our efforts during voting only because we have Asif or Azhar in our team.

 

[mr_mister]

I never knew Mongia was swept up in that. I just thought he was never picked because he's a weak option

 

[kingkallis]

I never knew Mongia was swept up in that. I just thought he was never picked because he's a weak option

Oh he was dirty as well. Azhar, Jadeja, Prabhakar, Mongia were definitely involved. As per Prabhakar even Kapil wanted to throw away a match against Pak.