DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen Countdown Thread

[marc71178]

KL does look good with the gloves. Dunno how he feels about keeping.

Bad review there. There was no upside.

Ok

 

[Logan]

I feel Smith should rank above Sobers. Smith is peerless and on another level compared to Kohli in Tests. Barrington was on par if not better than Sobers. Same with Sachin and Lara. Same with Gavaskar and Richards. In Smith’s case, he is clearly a league ahead of Kohli.

 

[kyear2]

I feel Smith should rank above Sobers. Smith is peerless and on another level compared to Kohli in Tests. Barrington was on par if not better than Sobers. Same with Sachin and Lara. Same with Gavaskar and Richards. In Smith’s case, he is clearly a league ahead of Kohli.

So we are still going with the Barrington was better than Sobers spiel then.

 

[ataraxia]

I feel Smith should rank above Sobers. Smith is peerless and on another level compared to Kohli in Tests. Barrington was on par if not better than Sobers. Same with Sachin and Lara. Same with Gavaskar and Richards. In Smith’s case, he is clearly a league ahead of Kohli.

Haha very funny. Did you even read jimmy's argument?

 

[Flem274*]

The best player should get to pick where he wants to bat, as it has been in every cricket team ever.

dwta, the players are arranged to create the best possible side. usually this coincides with what you say (michael clarke was jinxed everywhere but #5 so it was dumb to move him), but sometimes someone needs to move and they do get moved if the selectors have any balls.

the most recent example being joe root being shunted up for the team until his crapness at #3 became untenable. he may still get moved back if denly becomes a spud rather than the gourmet premium spud he is now.

 

[ataraxia]

dwta, the players are arranged to create the best possible side. usually this coincides with what you say (michael clarke was jinxed everywhere but #5 so it was dumb to move him), but sometimes someone needs to move and they do get moved if the selectors have any balls.

the most recent example being joe root being shunted up for the team until his crapness at #3 became untenable. he may still get moved back if denly becomes a spud rather than the gourmet premium spud he is now.

The number of runs will be smaller though if the percentage difference is the same; as stephen said:

Yeah but if Bradman's average drops by 20% by opening and Tendulkar's drops by 30%, you're still sacrificing more runs by batting Bradman out of position.

 

[Flem274*]

i dont think it works that way. i would back bradman to be the least affected of any batsman in history. if this was a mortal like tendulkar id be more inclined to agree, but this is bradman. no way is he not continuing on his merry way if he's opening the batting.

edit - and if, as in the original exercise, he's the best equipped to open of the top 10 bats in this chart then he damn well opens.

 

[stephen]

i dont think it works that way. i would back bradman to be the least affected of any batsman in history. if this was a mortal like tendulkar id be more inclined to agree, but this is bradman. no way is he not continuing on his merry way if he's opening the batting.

I'd back him to adjust better than any other player but the thing is that if it even affects his game by 10%, you're losing 10 runs off his average. For any other batsman in that list, they basically have to lose 20% to be worse than that.

We're talking about a guy who would be dropping from 100 down to 80 or 90, so he'd still be clearly the best in the world by a huge margin but it would affect the team's performance more than if say Tendulkar opened and dropped from 53 average to 40 or 45. And I think Tendulkar would most likely only drop to somewhere around 47/48 anyway if he opened.

Of those guys I think Tendulkar would adjust to opening the best with his watertight technique. Smith has the #4 nailed down as well so Tendulkar would either be batting at 5 or opening with Sobers batting 6.

 

[Flem274*]

i doubt he'd be affected by even 10% tbh. he's the closest thing to a batting robot we'll ever have. he just can't be compared to any other batsman.

i forgot sangakkara was keeping and not a #3 in this though. i'd probably put steve smith at #3 since sachin is too chicken to do it. he'd probably throw a strop and average 30 on purpose if he was forced to open.

#dravidforeversachinnever

 

[Burgey]

Lara had his flaws, but he was one of the most aesthetically beautiful batsmen, his innings were often super dramatic (thanks largely to the WI being in shambles), and his batsmanship had an upper limit which seemed higher than other batsmen.

Dat backlift. Like he was hitting a one iron.

 

[ataraxia]

i doubt he'd be affected by even 10% tbh. he's the closest thing to a batting robot we'll ever have. he just can't be compared to any other batsman.

i forgot sangakkara was keeping and not a #3 in this though. i'd probably put steve smith at #3 since sachin is too chicken to do it. he'd probably throw a strop and average 30 on purpose if he was forced to open.

#dravidforeversachinnever

Sobers really should be played at 3 or 4 in AT XIs more often IMO. But if you don't consider him an option:

Brian Lara - Performance Analysis by Batting Position - Test Cricket

 

[Slifer]

Sobers really should be playe at 3 or 4 in AT XIs more often IMO. But if you don't consider him an option:

Brian Lara - Performance Analysis by Batting Position - Test Cricket

Sobers could bat anywhere (literally) from 3 to 7 and he'd excell. Arguably the most versatile cricketer ever

 

[Days of Grace]

No.4

Garfield Sobers (West Indies) 890

Quality Points: 817
Career Points: 73

Career/Runs: 1954-1974, 8032 (rank 17)

Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 54.90 57.78 47.69 50.20 60.84 52.39 (rank 7)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1957-1963): 69.15 60.85 60.80 (rank 7)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 49.97 45.86 62.08 (rank 13)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 54.01 47.89 61.72 (rank 10)

The highest ranked West Indian test batsman and the greatest player from the Caribbean, Sir Garfield Sobers started off as a slow-left arm bowler batting at no.9 in his first test innings. He took 17 matches to score his first century, a record-breaking 365* against Pakistan in 1958. From that point on he averaged an adjusted 59.44 (62.95) from 77 matches across 16 years. That he was able to do this despite sending down a number of overs as both an opening swing bowler and a slow "stock" bowler is indeed miraculous. His strike-rate receives a sizable boost as Sobers was one of the few attacking batsmen intent to entertain in the 1960s. He was also immense against England and Australia, averaging an adjusted 54.01 (53.99). He was not immune to cashing in against weaker attacks on flat wickets, and thus his overall average takes a bit of a hit. He also batted at no.6 in the majority of his innings from the mid-1960s onwards. But we can only guess what he would have averaged if he had batted at no.3 or no.4 with the burden of bowling lifted from his shoulders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXhubJHUiZA

 

[Cabinet96]

Wow

 

[sunilz]

No.3 must have ratings above 898 because DOG had informed earlier Tendulkar would have been ranked no.4 had he retired after 2011 WC iirc.

 

[mr_mister]

Hobbs benefitting so much for being so far ahead of his golden age peers and rightly so. Trumper averaged 20 runs less and has the same reputation in some circles

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Not a bad position for an all-rounder.

 

[honestbharani]

Wow is right. I still rate him the 2nd best to Bradman but I am sure there are numbers behind this. Will be interesting to read what the more stats oriented members here make of it, like sunilz and AndrewB and of course, DoG himself. Perhaps the most unbelievable skillset among all cricketers to have ever played the game. Even listening to the great man, it was obvious how well he read the game and how knowledgable, instinctive and instructive he was on the game itself. A peerless cricketer, really.

 

[sunilz]

His overseas average in NZ and Pak/Ban hurt him here. He is excellent in remaining parameters.

 

[stephen]

I guess the real question is who gets number 2 - Hobbs or Smith.