sledger
Spanish_Vicente
You're neither of these things, ftr.
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Does Virender Sehwag deserve to be called an ALL TIME GREAT?
- Thread starter HeavyBall
- Start date
Shri
Mr. Glass
Meh, labels.
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I think you may have fallen down the sarchasm.. Sehwag's a ridiculous player. I feel a bit like people are missing something when they discuss him so, uh, soberly.
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I think a lot of us in England and to a lesser extent Australia will always have a tendency to focus on what he does badly because we'll have watched a lot more of his matches there. Which is a shame, because there's nothing special or unusual about his weaknesses- almost all batsmen from the subcontinent struggle against swing and bounce to some extent. But I'm pretty sure he's the first test opener to make a habit of occasionally scoring ultra-aggressive triple centuries.
Teja.
Global Moderator
Not one yet.
Could be one if he regains form and goes on for a few years.
Of the bats who debuted after Dravid-Ponting-Kallis, Sanga is pretty much the only one who fits the bill, for me.
He's definitely underrated by some sections though, Have always felt if someone like Tendulkar or Ponting scored one or two tons at close to run-a-ball, they'd be rated very very highly as displays of masterly batsmanship etc. yet it's ****ing ridiculous Sehwag has scored tons like that to be considered as just another Sehwag FTB ton.
Sehwag has pampered us so much with those sort of knocks that we don't realize just how rare they are.
Could be one if he regains form and goes on for a few years.
Of the bats who debuted after Dravid-Ponting-Kallis, Sanga is pretty much the only one who fits the bill, for me.
He's definitely underrated by some sections though, Have always felt if someone like Tendulkar or Ponting scored one or two tons at close to run-a-ball, they'd be rated very very highly as displays of masterly batsmanship etc. yet it's ****ing ridiculous Sehwag has scored tons like that to be considered as just another Sehwag FTB ton.
Sehwag has pampered us so much with those sort of knocks that we don't realize just how rare they are.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He is overrated as there are some pundits (like Ian Chappell) who for some reason consider him worthy of selection in an all-time great team. G. Boycottas a former opener is much better with his analysis of Sehwag.
I myself put Sehwag in the Mohd. Yousuf and Jayawardene category of world class batsmen who are simply too flawed to be considered all time greats.
Sehwag's flaw though is not a minor one. He struggles not necessarily against top class pace but against swinging/seaming conditions. The fact is that unlike other greats he does not adjust his game to the conditions and ends up playing without compensating for the deviation caused by swing and seam. Simply put, if you insist on using no footwork in such conditions you will play with a complete lack of balance and inevitably get the outside edge. His averages of 27 in England, 25 in SA and 20 in NZ are testament to this. In Australia, he does better because the swing and seam is not as present though this series has shown that with consistent tight bowling Sehwag as recent lacks the application to do well even here.
The example I constantly bring up is the series against SA in India in 2008, when he scored a plundering triple ton on a flat deck yet metamorphasized into a bunny when faced with tough pitches in the next two tests. It was quite a transformation.
Sehwag's problem is one of temperament and not technique. His defense is pretty solid but for some reason he can't reign himself in and either a) overestimates his ability to conquer bowler regardless of conditions or b) simply does not have the patience for the long grind.
The reason why this is particularly damning in Sewhag's case is that the prime responsibility of an opener is to cease the early initiative. When conditions are batting friendly, this means quick runs which he does well but when the ball is swinging, is it for the opener to see off the new ball is to gain the advantage. Sehwag, actually, is as much of a match loser for India as a match winner. People overestimate the psychological impact of his occasional key knocks and downplay the demoralizing impact of him recklessly and regularly slashing a swinging delivery to second slip in his few over when the team needs him to survive. Recall him against Anderson in Edgbaston last year. 'That's the way he plays' is hardly an excuse, thats the reason Tendulkar is a class far above him. Tendulkar will adjust his playing style if need be, as he did when he faced Steyn in Newlands, so long as he can survive.
I myself put Sehwag in the Mohd. Yousuf and Jayawardene category of world class batsmen who are simply too flawed to be considered all time greats.
Sehwag's flaw though is not a minor one. He struggles not necessarily against top class pace but against swinging/seaming conditions. The fact is that unlike other greats he does not adjust his game to the conditions and ends up playing without compensating for the deviation caused by swing and seam. Simply put, if you insist on using no footwork in such conditions you will play with a complete lack of balance and inevitably get the outside edge. His averages of 27 in England, 25 in SA and 20 in NZ are testament to this. In Australia, he does better because the swing and seam is not as present though this series has shown that with consistent tight bowling Sehwag as recent lacks the application to do well even here.
The example I constantly bring up is the series against SA in India in 2008, when he scored a plundering triple ton on a flat deck yet metamorphasized into a bunny when faced with tough pitches in the next two tests. It was quite a transformation.
Sehwag's problem is one of temperament and not technique. His defense is pretty solid but for some reason he can't reign himself in and either a) overestimates his ability to conquer bowler regardless of conditions or b) simply does not have the patience for the long grind.
The reason why this is particularly damning in Sewhag's case is that the prime responsibility of an opener is to cease the early initiative. When conditions are batting friendly, this means quick runs which he does well but when the ball is swinging, is it for the opener to see off the new ball is to gain the advantage. Sehwag, actually, is as much of a match loser for India as a match winner. People overestimate the psychological impact of his occasional key knocks and downplay the demoralizing impact of him recklessly and regularly slashing a swinging delivery to second slip in his few over when the team needs him to survive. Recall him against Anderson in Edgbaston last year. 'That's the way he plays' is hardly an excuse, thats the reason Tendulkar is a class far above him. Tendulkar will adjust his playing style if need be, as he did when he faced Steyn in Newlands, so long as he can survive.
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kyear2
International Coach
Fully agreed with that statement, as I have constantly repeated, he is the most over rated batsman of our time and is the quinessential Flat Track Bully. Even when he scored runs in this series he looked over matched, even the slightest bit of movement and he looks amazingly at sea. An enterprising, exiting and when conditions suit him dominating player yes, an ATG, no.
thierry henry
International Coach
Of ****ing course he is, and this is from someone who can't stand the way he bats. He lazily blasts test match 300s for fun ffs. If Viv Richards did that against 4 year olds in his backyard people would be all over it. Cricket fans, fmd.
Sorry Sir, will try harder next time.
Contra
Cricketer Of The Year
This soooooo much. His double ton at Galle was by far the best innings against high quality spin bowling on a helpful deck in probably the last 10 years IMO, and he was not out too in that innings. How anyone can call him a FTB is beyond me when he's in the top 5 of best spin players of all time.
Another thing I'd like to add is that Sehwag has said time and again that he'd like to bat in the middle order, and it makes sense too, 3/4th of the time Sehwag doesn't last long enough for the spinner to come on and bowl since he's an opener, which is really unfortunate when you imagine the kind of destruction he could cause coming in during the 30-40 over mark with the ball becoming old and bowlers being that tired + spinners bowling (most likely). I know we all love the trailblazer type innings from Sehwag first up, but him batting in the middle order makes a lot more sense (especially in overseas tests), and could help maximize his run scoring potential since he won't have to face the new ball as much, not to mention will get some rest before batting if he's been on the field for 2 days.
If Sehwag plays for another 2-3 years and keeps his average of 50+ with a strike rate of 80+ then I won't hesitate one bit for calling him an ATG.
There's a lot of things Sehwag can't do.. but ****ing hell, there are some things only he can do, truly awesome player.
Migara
International Coach
Yeah, runs made against spin doesn't count.
TumTum
Banned
Hughes scored 2 centuries against Steyn and Co in South Africa. That doesn't mean he is an awesome batsman in swinging/seaming conditions against a quality attack.
Just 1 innings doesn't mean anything.
Contra
Cricketer Of The Year
rofl, Sehwag's played plenty of amazing innings against quality spinners, that one happens to be his best, which is why it's brought up again and again. Murali himself has complimented Sehwag time and again, doesn't get anymore obvious than that, he's great against spin, end of. Hughes is ****, lets not even compare the two here.
The point was about him being called FTB on the basis that he's not that great in swinging conditions, conveniently forgetting that spinning conditions also exist, conditions where Sehwag has performed in.