Do you think Murali was a chucker?

[Teja.]

Those who deny reason cannot be conquered by it.

 

[Red]

Those who deny reason cannot be conquered by it.

Fine!

 

[Migara]

Basic fact is they changed the rule to accommodate him.

Murali's off break was fine with 10 degree limit. They changed it to accomadate McGrath and Pollock who were going up to 12 degrees.

 

[Migara]

Anyway, to cut a long story short - rather than criticise off-spin bowlers for merely doing their job of taking wickets the best way they can, perhaps the ICC should look at banning the 'doosra' if it becomes established that it is a biomechanical impossibility to bowl without bending the elbow.

I suspect that it is a biomechanical impossibility to bowl the 'doosra' without bending the elbow.

There's no way you can bowl a slow medium in swinger even without straightening your elbow. Simply the "ban the dossra" bandwagon should educate themselves on bio mechanics. Murali demonstrated doosra even with am elbow brace on an simply you r point is moot from that point onwards

 

[grecian]

Anyway, to cut a long story short - rather than criticise off-spin bowlers for merely doing their job of taking wickets the best way they can, perhaps the ICC should look at banning the 'doosra' if it becomes established that it is a biomechanical impossibility to bowl without bending the elbow.

I suspect that it is a biomechanical impossibility to bowl the 'doosra' without bending the elbow.

If I had one wish in cricket, it would be this. Doosra is evil.

 

[Debris]

By the original rules, yes. Under those rules if the umpire thought you threw it, then you threw it. And a number of umpires thought he did.

Under current rules, no he does not throw it. He did the test and his arm straightened less than 15 degrees.

So the answer is both yes and no.

 

[smash84]

I opened this thread to check if kyear got to it and started spewing his prejudiced, stubborn bull ****. You have become very predictable, kyear.

 

[Migara]

If I had one wish in cricket, it would be this. Doosra is evil.

I would have wanted haters to suck

 

[Migara]

By the original rules, yes. Under those rules if the umpire thought you threw it, then you threw it. And a number of umpires thought he did.

Under current rules, no he does not throw it. He did the test and his arm straightened less than 15 degrees.

So the answer is both yes and no.

Which was blatantly wrong as proven later. Umpires mistake, is a mistake. Whether it's official or not doesn't matter. What matters is the absolute truth.

 

[grecian]

I would have wanted haters to suck

Well that's your personal preference, and in this modern-age, good luck to you

 

[fredfertang]

If I had one wish in cricket, it would be this. Doosra is evil.

Agreed - perhaps as a quid pro quo for losing that the off spinner could be given back the leg trap that was taken away after Jim Laker embarassed the Aussies

 

[BackFootPunch]

If I had one wish in cricket, it would be this. Doosra is evil.

May I ask what your issue is with the doosra?

 

[grecian]

May I ask what your issue is with the doosra?

Don't think it can be consistently bowled legally in match conditions. Had no problem with Murali until he started bowling it.

 

[grecian]

Agreed - perhaps as a quid pro quo for losing that the off spinner could be given back the leg trap that was taken away after Jim Laker embarassed the Aussies

Meh, UDRS means that spinners are getting tons of LBW's nowadays, and more batsmen are having to play at the ball, bringing into play the close catchers. Spin bowlers don't need any doosras or change of rules now that the existing one's are finally being properly officiated.

 

[kyear2]

You would be the one to comment and find that amusing.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Don't think it can be consistently bowled legally in match conditions. Had no problem with Murali until he started bowling it.

So you feel that when someone bowls it in a match, rather than in a lab, their arm will straighten more than the 15 degrees allowed?

I wonder if any attention is paid to the quality of the delivery when a bowler is tested. Perhaps whenever someone gets tested they should compare how they bowl in a match to what they do in the tests to make sure they're not just easing off a bit in order to be declared legal.

 

[Teja.]

Isn't the logistical nature of Murali's doosra fundamentally different from every other spinner's doosra due to his double-jointed wrist and him being a wrist spinner? From what one could see it was more of a googly action-wise than a doosra.

I personally have several doubts about Ajmal's doosra and as to whether a non-Murali bowler can bowl a doosra without chucking it tbh and wish one more comprehensive study was carried out measuring the newer doosra bowlers in match conditions but I'll live.

 

[grecian]

So you feel that when someone bowls it in a match, rather than in a lab, their arm will straighten more than the 15 degrees allowed?

I wonder if any attention is paid to the quality of the delivery when a bowler is tested. Perhaps whenever someone gets tested they should compare how they bowl in a match to what they do in the tests to make sure they're not just easing off a bit in order to be declared legal.

Yep, pretty much, it always looks different when I see it tested, would like to see how much turn they'd get with that ball. I'm not saying anyone's cheating, BTW. Just think the extra effort in matches may change it up a bit. The ball didn't exist for decades before it started being bold, I suggest there's a very good reason for this.

 

[grecian]

Isn't the logistical nature of Murali's doosra fundamentally different from every other spinner's doosra due to his double-jointed wrist and him being a wrist spinner? From what one could see it was more of a googly action-wise than a doosra.

I personally have several doubts about Ajmal's doosra and as to whether a non-Murali bowler can bowl a doosra without chucking it tbh and wish one more comprehensive study was carried out measuring the newer doosra bowlers in match conditions but I'll live.

You could well be right, the double jointed-ness may make all the difference, so I'm probably being harsh as I despise the delivery.

 

[Ruckus]

I wonder if any attention is paid to the quality of the delivery when a bowler is tested. Perhaps whenever someone gets tested they should compare how they bowl in a match to what they do in the tests to make sure they're not just easing off a bit in order to be declared legal.

Well according to the link rvd provided:

"CAN BOWLERS ADJUST THEIR ACTION IN TESTING?

The member of the panel assigned to work with the bowler will receive video copies of the match from which the bowler was reported. This means the expert will have another point of reference along with the bowler's action from the laboratory testing to measure any changes. If the expert feels the bowler is not replicating their action from match conditions in the laboratory, they have the authority to recommend the bowler be suspended."

For me though that sounds pretty dubious and almost a token provision. I mean we're talking about a bunch of scientists in a lab here, so other than the technical tests they perform I have doubts about how rigorous the entire process is. I find things like the "bowling in a brace" test to be a joke as well frankly. I mean, what's going to happen if they do actually chuck the ball? They will collapse to the ground and won't be able to release the ball or something? Of course they won't. In all likelihood they'll still be able to bowl like before, but certain qualities (spin, pace etc.) will be reduced. The only valid way to test this stuff is in match situation imo. I don't know how they would do it, but that's another matter.

By the original rules, yes. Under those rules if the umpire thought you threw it, then you threw it. And a number of umpires thought he did.
Under current rules, no he does not throw it. He did the test and his arm straightened less than 15 degrees. So the answer is both yes and no.

"WHY IS 15 DEGREES THE MAXIMUM LEVEL?

That is the number which biomechanics says that it (straightening) becomes visible, said panel member Fraser. It is difficult for the naked eye to see less than 15 degrees in a bowler's action."

So assuming that's correct, any reasonable straightening of the elbow will almost certainly be more than 15 degrees. So I guess base your answer off what you think visually; is there much straightening or isn't there?