Do you like Ian Chappell?

[listento_me]

I dunno about Smith but Waugh was certainly a selfish batsman. His snail like pace at times was a counter point to Australia's often aggressive approach at batting at that particular time. As a captain, I personally really disliked the whole "sledging" thing, which wasn't sledging really. It was dark and disturbing, in any other work place you'd get the sack for it. BUt it worked and you can't argue with the results. Plus Waugh also knew how to get the best out of an egotistical bunch of cricketers. However, none of what he did as captain ever endeared neutrals to Australia like it did neutrals to the Windies, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

Edit: Forgot to say, I feel IC is probably a dick in real life but the stuff he gets quoted as saying in that article is kinda true and the whole Bradman thing is an absolute mess.

 

[sledger]

One of Lancashire's more consistent performers over the last fifteen or so years. Has always struck me as a decent enough bloke. I've got no beef.

 

[Red]

I dunno about Smith but Waugh was certainly a selfish batsman. His snail like pace at times was a counter point to Australia's often aggressive approach at batting at that particular time.

That is unsubstantiated bullshit.

 

[Burgey]

I sometimes wonder if listento_me's posts are a glitch in the matrix. It's like he's read second hand accounts of these cricketers by salty writers who don't like them, rather than actually having watched the blokes play.

 

[fredfertang]

That is unsubstantiated bullshit.

No he was a selfish bastard was Waugh - at his worst in 1989 when we barely saw any of the Australian lower order batting because he wasn't prepared to be dismissed

 

[Midwinter]

I like listening to Chappell's opinions because


1. His family history - His grandfather being a captain of Australia, his father being a keen cricketer and his brothers playing and coaching at international level
2. His personal career - coming up through shield cricket, before academies and the like, playing baseball at a high level, for playing and captaining Australia, being involved in World Series cricket.

This gives him a perspective on the game few others have. ( particularly the other commentators on C9)

I respect his views

I don't expect him to like me, I don't think he cares if I like him.

He is there to do a job and he will do it in the way he sees fit.

But he is getting old ( over 70 now), and it is affecting his manner of speech and time it takes him to say things.


BTW In the article linked on the first page it mentions his knowledge of Bradman's history, passed down to him by his grandfather. It puts his opinion of Bradman into a context that had not occurred to me before.

 

[listento_me]

That is unsubstantiated bullshit.

In what way? Waugh had an overall SR over under 50 but you don't even need to look at the numbers to know that. Just watch him bat. He played almost in a shell, looking for that bad ball. Which is fine and some guys have that style but it still made his batting selfish because if Australia ever needed it, he wasn't there to stamp his authority on a bowler. He was fortunate to have more aggressive batsmen around him, in both tests and ODIs to make up for that.

I know the counter argument is that his position in the team was to anchor the course of play, which is valid but when you watched Waugh, you know you weren't going to get flashy strokes and thrilling play, he certainly was no Lara or KP. In fact, if you take away some of his scores against England (who he loved) his sr would probably even lower.

Of course, the accusations of him being selfish may not be true at all but I'm just saying what I felt from a fans perspective and IC is saying teh same form his perspective as a former captain.

 

[cricmad]

As a captain, Waugh got an excellent team handed on a platter but still he stooped to disgusting sledging tactics to win at any cost. IIRC, he announced his retirement before the series against India in 2003. It was surprising given that he had in the past talked about playing till he turned 40, wanting to conquer the final frontier in India in 2004-5. I think the selectors tapped him on the shoulder and told him to quit on his own or else get dropped. Also, he started the trend of Australian cricketers playing way past their sell by date. His successor Ponting did the same sledging **** and played way past his sell by date. But all these aside, I think Steve Waugh was a gutsy cricketer and never backed away from a challenge.
Michael Clarke I think is a selfish cricketer for the way he dragged on his career towards the end. Under the captaincy of George Bailey Australia turned into an exciting, ruthless winning machine in ODIs and Clarke stole his thunder, riding his teammates' coat-tails to a world cup win. He so didn't deserve that glory.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

One of Lancashire's more consistent performers over the last fifteen or so years. Has always struck me as a decent enough bloke. I've got no beef.

DWTA. He's a Lancastrian.

 

[TheJediBrah]

As a captain, Waugh got an excellent team handed on a platter but still he stooped to disgusting sledging tactics to win at any cost. IIRC, he announced his retirement before the series against India in 2003. It was surprising given that he had in the past talked about playing till he turned 40, wanting to conquer the final frontier in India in 2004-5. I think the selectors tapped him on the shoulder and told him to quit on his own or else get dropped. Also, he started the trend of Australian cricketers playing way past their sell by date. His successor Ponting did the same sledging **** and played way past his sell by date. But all these aside, I think Steve Waugh was a gutsy cricketer and never backed away from a challenge.
Michael Clarke I think is a selfish cricketer for the way he dragged on his career towards the end. Under the captaincy of George Bailey Australia turned into an exciting, ruthless winning machine in ODIs and Clarke stole his thunder, riding his teammates' coat-tails to a world cup win. He so didn't deserve that glory.

has this thread turned into a worst-post-in-history-of-the-internet competition without my knowledge?

 

[mr_mister]

'mental disintegration' does sound absolutely disgusting to me as a name for a tactic but the reality is it was only critiquing crappy player's non abilities. Waugh never threw direct insults he would apparently loudly whisper to his teammate about batsman x's poor technique so the batsmen heard it.

 

[Red]

In what way? Waugh had an overall SR over under 50 but you don't even need to look at the numbers to know that. Just watch him bat. He played almost in a shell, looking for that bad ball. Which is fine and some guys have that style but it still made his batting selfish because if Australia ever needed it, he wasn't there to stamp his authority on a bowler. He was fortunate to have more aggressive batsmen around him, in both tests and ODIs to make up for that.

I know the counter argument is that his position in the team was to anchor the course of play, which is valid but when you watched Waugh, you know you weren't going to get flashy strokes and thrilling play, he certainly was no Lara or KP. In fact, if you take away some of his scores against England (who he loved) his sr would probably even lower.

Of course, the accusations of him being selfish may not be true at all but I'm just saying what I felt from a fans perspective and IC is saying teh same form his perspective as a former captain.

Once again, rubbish. Really good player to watch. Great on and off drive. Great cover drive. Great cut. Excellent off his pads thru mid wicket.

Put away the pull and the hook cos they got him out. That's not selfish. It's smart.

 

[Burgey]

In what way? Waugh had an overall SR over under 50 but you don't even need to look at the numbers to know that. Just watch him bat. He played almost in a shell, looking for that bad ball. Which is fine and some guys have that style but it still made his batting selfish because if Australia ever needed it, he wasn't there to stamp his authority on a bowler. He was fortunate to have more aggressive batsmen around him, in both tests and ODIs to make up for that.

I know the counter argument is that his position in the team was to anchor the course of play, which is valid but when you watched Waugh, you know you weren't going to get flashy strokes and thrilling play, he certainly was no Lara or KP. In fact, if you take away some of his scores against England (who he loved) his sr would probably even lower.

Of course, the accusations of him being selfish may not be true at all but I'm just saying what I felt from a fans perspective and IC is saying teh same form his perspective as a former captain.

As a captain, Waugh got an excellent team handed on a platter but still he stooped to disgusting sledging tactics to win at any cost. IIRC, he announced his retirement before the series against India in 2003. It was surprising given that he had in the past talked about playing till he turned 40, wanting to conquer the final frontier in India in 2004-5. I think the selectors tapped him on the shoulder and told him to quit on his own or else get dropped. Also, he started the trend of Australian cricketers playing way past their sell by date. His successor Ponting did the same sledging **** and played way past his sell by date. But all these aside, I think Steve Waugh was a gutsy cricketer and never backed away from a challenge.
Michael Clarke I think is a selfish cricketer for the way he dragged on his career towards the end. Under the captaincy of George Bailey Australia turned into an exciting, ruthless winning machine in ODIs and Clarke stole his thunder, riding his teammates' coat-tails to a world cup win. He so didn't deserve that glory.

So good that these two posts are next to each other.

 

[vic_orthdox]

In what way? Waugh had an overall SR over under 50 but you don't even need to look at the numbers to know that. Just watch him bat. He played almost in a shell, looking for that bad ball. Which is fine and some guys have that style but it still made his batting selfish because if Australia ever needed it, he wasn't there to stamp his authority on a bowler. He was fortunate to have more aggressive batsmen around him, in both tests and ODIs to make up for that.

I know the counter argument is that his position in the team was to anchor the course of play, which is valid but when you watched Waugh, you know you weren't going to get flashy strokes and thrilling play, he certainly was no Lara or KP. In fact, if you take away some of his scores against England (who he loved) his sr would probably even lower.

Of course, the accusations of him being selfish may not be true at all but I'm just saying what I felt from a fans perspective and IC is saying teh same form his perspective as a former captain.

It's well documented how he cut a lot of shots out of his game. The fact that he was a "mere mortal" but spent much of the 1990s being compared to Lara and Tendulkar says enough for the effectiveness of his decision making. Without going into the issue that using strike rate to determine "selfishness" is wrongheaded, a strike rate under 50 for a guy who started in the 1980s is hardly snail's pace.

Waugh was seen as a selfish individual by a few around the Australian group, but not often/very rarely for how he batted.

 

[mr_mister]

People said he let the tailenders face too much strike so they could get out and he could get a not out and boost his average? I swear I remember that criticism of his batting. Didn't farm enough strike

 

[vic_orthdox]

People said he let the tailenders face too much strike so they could get out and he could get a not out and boost his average? I swear I remember that criticism of his batting. Didn't farm enough strike

Yeah, worked sometimes and didn't work others (MCG vs England in 1998/99 I think?).

 

[OverratedSanity]

How does a low sr indicate selfishness?

 

[Burgey]

It's well documented how he cut a lot of shots out of his game. The fact that he was a "mere mortal" but spent much of the 1990s being compared to Lara and Tendulkar says enough for the effectiveness of his decision making. Without going into the issue that using strike rate to determine "selfishness" is wrongheaded, a strike rate under 50 for a guy who started in the 1980s is hardly snail's pace.

Waugh was seen as a selfish individual by a few around the Australian group, but not often/very rarely for how he batted.

Waugh was better than both Lara and Tendulkar from about 1993- end of 2000 tbh. Played a shitload of tests and dominated pretty well everywhere.

 

[mr_mister]

It doesn't IMO which makes Chappellis criticism of Boycott pretty dumb

 

[Julian87]

Under the captaincy of George Bailey Australia turned into an exciting, ruthless winning machine in ODIs and Clarke stole his thunder, riding his teammates' coat-tails to a world cup win. He so didn't deserve that glory.

What a bunch of absolute bollocks.