Do Bangladesh still deserve their minnows tag?

[Zinzan]

If Bangladesh are minnows then I would say that both Sri Lanka and Pakistan are minnows too.

I don't follow your logic there. Following on what Steve was saying, Pakistan were not a minnow coming into this tour, but they did play abysmally, whereas Bangers have been a minnow forever now, and admittedly finally got a Test win at home that wasn't the Windies, so were suddenly a little bullish coming into this series. The fact they were whitewashed 7-0 in spite of playing some competitive cricket at times, didn't push their case at all.

If you're going to claim Pakistan are a minnow for their 2-0 defeat to NZ, by the same logic, you'd have to say Australia were too for losing 3-0 to SL.

Surely you can see the difference, Bangers needed to be impressive to drop the tag, Paksistan who were no.1 ranked side in the world 5 months ago did not.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think they're minnows because most of the members of the team clearly are test standard, and a couple like tamim and Shakib can genuinely be considered in the top 5 or so in the world for their disciplines.

At the same time, I don't think they're as good as Sri Lanka, and certainly not Pakistan. They're still the worst team in the world, along with the windies.

 

[Bahnz]

I don't follow your logic there. Following on what Steve was saying, Pakistan were not a minnow coming into this tour, but they did play abysmally, whereas Bangers have been a minnow forever now, and admittedly finally got a Test win at home that wasn't the Windies, so were suddenly a little bullish coming into this series. The fact they were whitewashed 7-0 in spite of playing some competitive cricket at times, didn't push their case at all.

If you're going to claim Pakistan are a minnow for their 2-0 defeat to NZ, by the same logic, you'd have to say Australia were too for losing 3-0 to SL.

Surely you can see the difference, Bangers needed to be impressive to drop the tag, Paksistan who were no.1 ranked side in the world 5 months ago did not.

I don't think Pakistan are minnows, or Australia. Or Bangladesh. I don't think historical record has anything to do with a teams minnow status or lack thereof. Bangladesh for the last couple of years have clearly been playing at a level above minnow status. Their abysmal performance on this NZ tour is no better or worse than Pakistan's abysmal performance - including their LO tour of NZ last year, they went 0-6 on their tour of NZ. And Bangladesh's strong recent showings against England and South Africa - even more so given how little test cricket they get to play.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

This whole thread is predicated on how you define the term 'minnows' in a test cricketing context. It is pointless.

 

[Zinzan]

I don't think Pakistan are minnows, or Australia. Or Bangladesh. I don't think historical record has anything to do with a teams minnow status or lack thereof. Bangladesh for the last couple of years have clearly been playing at a level above minnow status. Their abysmal performance on this NZ tour is no better or worse than Pakistan's abysmal performance - including their LO tour of NZ last year, they went 0-6 on their tour of NZ. And their strong recent showings against England and South Africa - even more so given how little test cricket they get to play.

I don't think they're minnows because most of the members of the team clearly are test standard, and a couple like tamim and Shakib can genuinely be considered in the top 5 or so in the world for their disciplines.

At the same time, I don't think they're as good as Sri Lanka, and certainly not Pakistan. They're still the worst team in the world, along with the windies.

Yeah, so it really comes down to how we all individually define "minnows". That's fair enough I suppose, I'm currently on the fence but leaning towards them still being minnows. But if they travel well in the short term that may change.

 

[SteveNZ]

I don't think they're minnows because most of the members of the team clearly are test standard, and a couple like tamim and Shakib can genuinely be considered in the top 5 or so in the world for their disciplines.

At the same time, I don't think they're as good as Sri Lanka, and certainly not Pakistan. They're still the worst team in the world, along with the windies.

I hear what you're saying, and talent wise I agree. Obviously Tamim averages the best part of 40 which makes him a Test class opener, Shakib speaks for himself, Mominul looks the goods, and there's some ability there.

But I think they're minnows because of their mental weaknesses, and tha's as relevant as talent level. Pakistan have credit in the bank. Bangladesh have never earned that for any stretch of time.

They need stronger leaders. Sri Lanka pulled themselves out of the pit on the back of strong leaders like Ranatunga in particular, who demanded standards and wasn't prepared to back down or put up with **** from anyone. Bangladesh's leaders were arguably the deliverers of the most embarrasment on this tour (Shakib 2nd innings in 1st Test, plus his piss poor body language in the 4th innings; Tamim's shot selection; Imrul's whole tour really)

 

[Zinzan]

This whole thread is predicated on how you define the term 'minnows' in a test cricketing context. It is pointless.

Yup, beat me to it.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, I think if you rephrase the question as a more concrete "Do Bangladesh deserve to be playing test cricket" then the answer would be a pretty convincing win for yes.

 

[vcs]

I would say both have quite a few players with potential and an up-side than Pakistan right now ?

Pakistan have a fairly big rebuilding job. I think they will have to replace Younis, Misbah, Wahab and find a decent opening ball partner for Amir and one for Azhar with the bat. Also more competition for Shafiq and Sarfraz's spots would help as they aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

Their ODI/T20 team is around a decade behind other top teams in terms of approach and mentality, so that's a different challenge altogether.

 

[Shady Slim]

depends on what you define a minnow as

some use the term as another name for the associates, others just for teams they generally find bad - minnow bashing as a strict test term follows with the latter, people using the term when discussing the desert tournament just then probably the former

 

[Shady Slim]

ok i didn't read the thread so DCYE said it all before me and much more eloquently too sorry

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah, I think if you rephrase the question as a more concrete "Do Bangladesh deserve to be playing test cricket" then the answer would be a pretty convincing win for yes.

That I believe is a slightly different question to the one of being considered minnows.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah, I think if you rephrase the question as a more concrete "Do Bangladesh deserve to be playing test cricket" then the answer would be a pretty convincing win for yes.

In that case, 100% yes.

 

[honestbharani]

The way we loosely define the word "minnows", I would say they are not minnows at home but away they are. You can say most teams are terri-bad right now away from home but it is one thing to be beaten by the conditions. They still have a bit of mental block as well when it comes to doing well even on reasonable tracks away from home. So I would say they are non-minnows at home but minnows away from home.

 

[Zinzan]

In that case, 100% yes.

Yeah. I'm a yes on their test status.

 

[SeamUp]

Pakistan have a fairly big rebuilding job. I think they will have to replace Younis, Misbah, Wahab and find a decent opening ball partner for Amir and one for Azhar with the bat. Also more competition for Shafiq and Sarfraz's spots would help as they aren't exactly setting the world on fire.

Their ODI/T20 team is around a decade behind other top teams in terms of approach and mentality, so that's a different challenge altogether.

Spot on.

Sami Aslam, Babar Azam & Mohammed Amir appear to be the only youngsters getting into their test set-up and obviously they have their issues currently. Their core going forward is Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz as they are in the 30 years old region.

There has never been an international team like Pakistan who keep returning to their kick-outs. It's probably why we love them.

The fact that

Sri Lanka are unearthing Dickwella, Mendis, Da Silva, Sandakan, Lahiru etc
Bangers are unearthing Soumya Sarkar, Nazmul Hossain, Nurul Hassan , Monimul Haq, Mehdi Hasan, Taskin Ahmed, Mustafizur etc

Probably a concern for Pakistan.

 

[Zinzan]

The thing that most disappointed me with Bangers, is it's not like they got really difficult to play on NZ wickets. Both those Test wickets were really flat, relatively benign tracks that foreign sides should have found kind of neutral.

It's something I was complaining about in the 1st test when Bangers scored nearly 600, that we rolled out roads and arrogantly expected them to fall over. Well it worked in the end, but boy those weren't close to fruity spicy NZ decks.

 

[indiaholic]

As long as Mushy is in that team, I expect the team will not overcome their mental blocks. So they should be a decent side in about 7 years.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I personally see a difference between simply being garbage and being minnow. Minnows, how I perceive them to be at least, are teams which have been added to the Test roster but have struggled for a degree of time with the gulf in quality up there and have not yet developed a historical 'winning' era, or much of anything really. There is also perhaps an inferiority complex, coupled with a smugness by the other nations (towards you). New Zealand were minnows for decades until Hadlee. India, West Indies and Pakistan all moved beyond minnow status quicker than the Kiwis. It is a subjective thing however, i.e. not an exact science, because Wet Indies have this glorious history and have completely fallen off the map. I have no problems with calling them 'minnows'. Vice versa, I wouldn't call England during the '90s 'minnows': I'd simply call them shite. Pakistan are too mercurial to be minnows. Sri Lanka are sort of in the middle, pushing beyond their weight at various times in the Test arena while successfully targeting limited overs competitions, only to retreat back into a whipping boy periodically.

I do not think minnows should be stripped of their test status. Every nation deserves the freedom to produce complete and utter dross. That is sport. Would you strip England of their status during the '80s or '90s? Heck, the Aussies were not much cop in the '80s also! Let's remove their status.

 

[Zinzan]

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