dinesh kartik - should be be included in indian team

[Arjun]

same people who are asking for Parthiv's head now would want Karthik out of the team.

Which is why I never wanted another new name in the plans. If you ask me, there should only be Nayan Mongia, but then you have this section of fans saying that he's too old.

 

[Sanz]

Which is why I never wanted another new name in the plans. If you ask me, there should only be Nayan Mongia, but then you have this section of fans saying that he's too old.

Mongia should never be selected to Play for India again. Here is the CBI report on him :-

"..Azharuddin has said that the other Indian players involved with him are Nayan Mongia and Ajay Jadeja. He has, however, not disclosed specific amounts of money paid to Mongia and Jadeja. Azharuddin has, however, specified two matches in which Nayan Mongia was involved with him - the Titan Cup match at Rajkot and India-Pakistan one-dayer at Jaipur in 1999.

Dr Ali Irani has stated that one of the players involved with Axhar was Mongia. Ajay Sharma has also stated that Nayan Mongia used to operate through Azhar. MK, in his statement, has said that when Ajay Jadeja met him sometime in 1996 at his residence, he could "promise" only Mongia and hence, the deal did not come through... "

http://www.thisiscricket.com/CBI/players/NMongia.html

 

[Arjun]

Mongia should never be selected to Play for India again. Here is the CBI report on him :-

If that was true, he would have been totally banned, like Azhar and Jadeja. But he played on, and even got a national recall.

The high standards that he has set as a keeper have not yet been matched by all these so-called talented youngsters. Look at how he has kept to Kumble and look at how our 'best boy' Patel has, and you'll notice a great difference in quality. Keeping to Kumble is very difficult, and only Nayan Mongia has mastered it. Other wicketkeepers either get hit or they can't hold a ball. Which is why he still has a genuine chance of making it to both the Test and ODI teams.

The problem with the Indian selectors is that in this area, they are a totally misguided lot. They keep picking and dropping wicketkeepers for bad batting, without realising that wicketkeeping is their main priority. Besides, there are 6 batsmen to score runs. Even bowlers can get runs when needed. This is why the likes of Dahiya and Ratra never got to stay in. I would prefer they pick the best gloveman in India, irrespective of batting, and stick to him for a long time.

There still is a vacancy in the ODI side. They don't have a wicketkeeper and the way Dravid keeps, he would be a lot more useful in the slips, as he has, over the years. There is a risk of injury, so you cannot play Dravid as a regular, so the Patels, Ratras, Dahiyas and Naidus come useful.

If they have to pick a wicketkeeper who can bat, he should fit into the team on his batting alone, like Stewart or Gilchrist.

 

[venx86]

Dinesh Karthik

Hey Guys,

Nice to hear tht Dinesh Karthik has a such a lotta fans. I am Venkat, a trainee in the editorial department for a leading cricket website and I am based in Mumbai.

I was there at the MA Chidambaram Stadium when Dinesh played that wonderful knock against Mumbai and certainly has impressed Syed Kirmani, who was also present there ! I personally know Dinesh well and for one I believe that when it comes to all-round cricketing abilities, Dinesh is a better choice than Parthiv. I feel that he must be allowed to play one season more of Ranji Cricket and which would help him to ease himself on the international scene. But yes, Parthiv Patel has kept the contest alive between him and Dinesh, as Ajay Ratra has fallen out of favour from the selection panel.

One thing that impressed many in that knock of 110 was that as soon as he entered the wicket with Tamil Nadu at 123/5 or so, he blocked 2 balls and then smacked Nilesh Kulkarni, the onsong bowler for 3 boundaries in a row, which shows that he is a gutsy bloke who is not afraid to pick his chances early on too ! I certainly agree that with his 100s against Mumbai and Railways, as someone mentioned the best bowling attacks in the country....he's certainly proven that he is almost ready !

Venkat !
venkz86@yahoo.co.in

 

[Sanz]

If that was true, he would have been totally banned, like Azhar and Jadeja. But he played on, and even got a national recall.

You are questioning the Credibility of CBI. I think they have more credibility than a Tom, D & Harry like you or me. His selection in 2001 was a mistake and I am glad that those mistakes are not repeated.

The high standards that he has set as a keeper have not yet been matched by all these so-called talented youngsters. Look at how he has kept to Kumble and look at how our 'best boy' Patel has, and you'll notice a great difference in quality. Keeping to Kumble is very difficult, and only Nayan Mongia has mastered it. Other wicketkeepers either get hit or they can't hold a ball. Which is why he still has a genuine chance of making it to both the Test and ODI teams.

Patel has been good in the Indo-Pak Series both with Gloves as well as BAT.It's just the beginning and he is learning fast. And best part is India is winning with him in the team. As far as the quality of Mongia's is concerned, I am well aware of it, I am also aware that he does not get along with any senior player in the team and no one is interested in talking to him because of his attitude and his involvment in Match Fixing. I can't forget the Kanpur Match against WI and I also can't forget the Mumbai Test against Australia where he refused to play 5 more balls after he was hit on his finger and Sachin had to come out to play out those remaining 5 balls. I think this Indian Team is better off without him.

The problem with the Indian selectors is that in this area, they are a totally misguided lot. They keep picking and dropping wicketkeepers for bad batting, without realising that wicketkeeping is their main priority. Besides, there are 6 batsmen to score runs. Even bowlers can get runs when needed. This is why the likes of Dahiya and Ratra never got to stay in. I would prefer they pick the best gloveman in India, irrespective of batting, and stick to him for a long time.

I think you are even more misguided than our selectors, you want a 34 year old WK to be selected ahead of a 19 years old Youngster who has been doing fairly well with both Bat & Gloves and with every series he is getting better. I think you are on some personal mission. Dahiya and Ratra were no better Keepers than Patel and Patel is definately a better batsmen than these two. Anyways just because Dahiya and Ratra were droppped doesn't mean Selectors should make another mistake and drop Patel.

There still is a vacancy in the ODI side. They don't have a wicketkeeper and the way Dravid keeps, he would be a lot more useful in the slips, as he has, over the years. There is a risk of injury, so you cannot play Dravid as a regular, so the Patels, Ratras, Dahiyas and Naidus come useful.

There is no vacancy in the ODI side. Patel is already there in the ODI team as our WK. As a bat he is way better than Ratras, Dahiyas, and Mongias. Whole cricket fraternity including Coach John Wright thinks that Parthiv is one of the best prospects we have in Indian cricket, still you keep shouting Mongia, mongiia, mongia - Please carry on, Noone is going to listen.

 

[bhooth nath]

Hey Guys,

Nice to hear tht Dinesh Karthik has a such a lotta fans. I am Venkat, a trainee in the editorial department for a leading cricket website and I am based in Mumbai.

I was there at the MA Chidambaram Stadium when Dinesh played that wonderful knock against Mumbai and certainly has impressed Syed Kirmani, who was also present there ! I personally know Dinesh well and for one I believe that when it comes to all-round cricketing abilities, Dinesh is a better choice than Parthiv. I feel that he must be allowed to play one season more of Ranji Cricket and which would help him to ease himself on the international scene. But yes, Parthiv Patel has kept the contest alive between him and Dinesh, as Ajay Ratra has fallen out of favour from the selection panel.

One thing that impressed many in that knock of 110 was that as soon as he entered the wicket with Tamil Nadu at 123/5 or so, he blocked 2 balls and then smacked Nilesh Kulkarni, the onsong bowler for 3 boundaries in a row, which shows that he is a gutsy bloke who is not afraid to pick his chances early on too ! I certainly agree that with his 100s against Mumbai and Railways, as someone mentioned the best bowling attacks in the country....he's certainly proven that he is almost ready !

Venkat !
venkz86@yahoo.co.in

venkat, i saw that whole knock and wa impressed by kartiks batting and also his keeping and i feel that he just beats parthiv in terms of both, but he should be sent with the next tour of india and then he makes his debut later in the year against aus or sa at home.

also its beyond understanding, that the selectors who were constantly chaging wicket keepers have suddenly settled with one, whos keeping and batting were far below international standard in 2002, when he came. although he has improved, but he is still below international level and thats where a keeper like kartik can fit in.

 

[chicane]

venkat, i saw that whole knock and wa impressed by kartiks batting and also his keeping and i feel that he just beats parthiv in terms of both, but he should be sent with the next tour of india and then he makes his debut later in the year against aus or sa at home.

also its beyond understanding, that the selectors who were constantly chaging wicket keepers have suddenly settled with one, whos keeping and batting were far below international standard in 2002, when he came. although he has improved, but he is still below international level and thats where a keeper like kartik can fit in.

i think the selectors realised their mistakes and finally decided to keep faith on one guys ability. Though parthiv was not international standard in 2002 he still showed more promise than the rest. It's not easy to settle into international cricket straight away esp. against bowlers like kumble and harbhajan. And this perseverence has paid off. Parthiv still has some way to go but the improvement has been immense. His batting is superb, more than anyone expected and even if just batting skills were considered, parthiv would still get the nod ahead of dinesh atm.

 

[masterblaster]

Arjun, I CAN GUARANTEE you that Parthiv Patel is better at 19 years of age, than Nayan Mongia was when he was 19, with BAT and gloves.

Finally, for the first time we have a wicketkeeper with so much promise with bat and gloves, Mongia is past his use by date.

Its like saying we should recall Venkatesh Prasad or Dodda Ganesh because all the current fast bowlers give too many runs.

Or that Vinod Kambli should come in for Hemang Badani. Why in the hell would this very successful Indian team want to go backwards?

That aint going to happen, and Nayan Mongia will never get an Indian call up.

If it aint broke, DONT fix it!

 

[marc71178]

One thing that impressed many in that knock of 110 was that as soon as he entered the wicket with Tamil Nadu at 123/5 or so, he blocked 2 balls and then smacked Nilesh Kulkarni, the onsong bowler for 3 boundaries in a row, which shows that he is a gutsy bloke who is not afraid to pick his chances early on too !

Or could it just mean he decided to chance his arm as the situation was dire anyway?

 

[bhooth nath]

Or could it just mean he decided to chance his arm as the situation was dire anyway?

71178, the situation was not dire then. tamil nadu needed some batsman to score the runs. also, if you consider 1 100 as a fluke, then what you think about the hundred kartik hit in the semi-final to take tamil nadu into the finals ?

 

[Chathurr]

Parthiv not the right choice

I am surprised to read the praises showered on Parthiv in this thread. He played for two solid years to achieve this very negligible improvement in batting -two innings. His keeping is quite the same from the beginning with the ball “all too frequent “ popping up. His fitness is in question with him getting totally fagged out in about 70 overs.

If you had been following up his ascendancy into the Indian team you will further surprised. He was made captain of under-19 for the 2002 world cup. He did not perform well at all in both departments. We failed in first round itself. Then we played and won the Plate cup. He was again a failure. Surprisingly, he was selected to the India-A team and played all matches in Lanka. He scored one 70 odd runs after he was tried in different positions. To every ones surprise Parthiv was included into the Indian team. Believe me he is still in the team because his baby face. What would have happened , if he had the looks of Ratra or Dahiya, that is another question for debate.
May be he is in the team , because other playes like Ratara, Dahiya,Deepdas were not among the runs in domestic circuit. . He is protected by the shadow of the good performances of the other players in the team . Had this luxury of several opportunities spread over two long years been afforded to good keepers like Ajay Ratra, he would have excelled. However, he seems to be out of the reckoning at present.with the upcoming Dinesh Karthik.
I saw DK’s innings in U-19 WC and the recent Ranji . He kept very well for 200 overs. His batting was unbelievably a feast to the eyes. He is technically very sound and has all the shots. If you compare his technical skills with Parthiv, DK is by far the best. If you closely observe Parthi’s batting , he has very few shots. In Test he can wait for those balls. Obviously Parthiv is NOT suited for ODI.

I feel DK should be included into the team as his foundation is solid having performed well through the ranks.

 

[Sanz]

I am surprised to read the praises showered on Parthiv in this thread. He played for two solid years to achieve this very negligible improvement in batting -two innings. His keeping is quite the same from the beginning with the ball “all too frequent “ popping up. His fitness is in question with him getting totally fagged out in about 70 overs.

Only you find it negligible improvement. And please tell us how many catches he dropped in Pakistan. I for one didn't notice more than 1 or 2. Please tell us more about his 'FRequent Popups'. As far as His fitness is concerned, he looked pretty fit to me despite playing 3 tests in 3 weeks.

He was made captain of under-19 for the 2002 world cup. He did not perform well at all in both departments. We failed in first round itself. Then we played and won the Plate cup. He was again a failure.

If at all you are going to make a case for Dinesh Karthik, Please use facts about Parthiv otherwise you will lose all your Credibility if you keep posting your lies about Parthiv. Yes Parthiv was the captain of India U-19 team in 2002 world cup but he did perform okay with Bat and Gloves. Our team didn't fail in the first round either nor did we play in the plate cup final. We reached in the semifinals of the World Cup and lost to SA in SF of Super League.

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat...-U19_U19-WC2002_YODI-SUP-SEMI1_03FEB2002.html

Surprisingly, he was selected to the India-A team and played all matches in Lanka. He scored one 70 odd runs after he was tried in different positions.

There is no end to your lies, Parthiv Played very well in Sri Lanka. He batted in 5 innings and scored 3 half centuries and was not out on two occasions. Only time he failed to score was in the 3rd ODI where he scored 4. Here are his scores in that 'A' Tour to Sri Lanka :-51 Not out(Tour Game), 74(1st test), 4(3rd ODI), 71(4th ODI), 3 Not out(5th ODI).
(2nd & 3rd Tests, 1st & 2nd ODIs were abandandoned)

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2002/IND-A_IN_SL/SCORECARDS/

 

[Sanz]

I saw DK’s innings in U-19 WC and the recent Ranji . He kept very well for 200 overs. His batting was unbelievably a feast to the eyes. He is technically very sound and has all the shots.

DK in World Cup - 163 runs at an avg of 32.60, 6 Catches & 3 Stumpings in 7 matches

PP in World Cup - 184 runs at an avg of 26.28, 9 catches & 3 stumpings in 7 games.
Not much of a difference I would say. I have seen Patel bat in Tests and seems to be a pretty good bat in Tests and was at ease against the likes of Gillespie, Lee & Bitchels in Australian pitches.

 

[Chathurr]

Save Indian Cricket

Sannz,It is very evident that you are a great supporter of Parthiv. No wonder
you have all stats about PP. I doubt if even Parthiv nor his family members knows about these. Good that you brought it to light.Thanks.

I was making a casual comments abouts WK standard. Very rarely players have been successful,when inducted around 16. Tendulkar,Mustaq etc had class and proved from the beginning.

First of all I am not against Parthiv nor in favour of anyone. I am a
true supporter of cricket and watch all teams matches and analyse with
ex-ranji cricket players deeply. You have to keep in mind today's
level of cricket. It has to be the best, and only the best should stay. This is exactly what Australia is doing . What if AR, PP, DK or MSK were in
Autralia. For sure PP would not have played for Aus.

If you want to know how Parthi's keeping, just go to

http://www.cricketnext.com/features1/dharker/dharker52.htm

If Dharker is talking non-sense, then me too. Don't get worked
up.


I have the oppotunity of playing high grade cricket and I use the stats
as a guide line. Techincally Parthiv has plenty of limitations in batting. There
is no two things about it. I guess, you have missed out on the comments passed by the Commentators including S.Majarekar, in Pakistan, when Parthiv was performing at HIS best.

Everyone knows that Parthiv is being Groomed at Intl. level. All the
commentators have time and again said this. Pathetic.

By the way, PP is for Keeping, primarily. AR and the rest are far far
better in WK skills and in stamina and fitness. It is a big joke if you say PP is fit. All the other guys have taken the right route in going through all the training, playing all level's of criket. I doubt PP would have reached India A nor even stayed in Ranji, if he had taken the
right route, by playing first class.

I have seen batting and WK skills of I.Kaleel of Hyd. Another talent
being supperssed, by whom ???

Please note keeping for Pace is easy , where as against spin is not. PP
is poor against spin, that too after being trained by the best Intl.
keepers in the world. As somebody has pointed out in the site, PP
needs another 40 matches and five more years to upgrade his skills to meet the expectatioins for intl matches. This is not a lie. Read the comments.

Oh. God save Indian cricket!

 

[Vroomfondel]

and then there's this --
\

Parthiv Patel’s teammates are predicting big things for him. Impressed with his attitude, coach John Wright, skipper Sourav Ganguly, vice-captain Rahul Dravid and Sachin Tendulkar all spoke about the 19-year-old wicket-keeper/batsman in glowing terms after the successful campaign in Pakistan. Dravid went on to say that Patel would be a “super star” in future.

(btw, anil dharker is one of the bigger clowns in the cricket-scribe ilk)

 

[Arjun]

btw, anil dharker is one of the bigger clowns in the cricket-scribe ilk

He sometimes talks sense.

 

[Sanz]

Sannz,It is very evident that you are a great supporter of Parthiv. No wonder you have all stats about PP. I doubt if even Parthiv nor his family members knows about these. Good that you brought it to light.Thanks.

Well, I hope Dinesh Karthik's Family members know about you, you seem to be his greatest supported and will go any extent to have him in the Indian Team, Even LIE. I brought up all those stats about PP to prove you wrong, You posted lies about him and tried to mislead people on this forum. I dont care If PP and his family knows about me. I am no supporter of any individual, I support the Indian team and will support anyone who IMO is good for Indian Cricket.

I was making a casual comments abouts WK standard. Very rarely players have been successful,when inducted around 16. Tendulkar,Mustaq etc had class and proved from the beginning.

And How old is Karthik ?? And your comments were hardly casual, They were at best 'LIES'.

For sure PP would not have played for Aus.

There are many in our team who would not have played for AUS. Except Sachin and Dravid, I dont think anyone in our team can get into an Australian side, so what is the point. Are you suggesting that dinesh Karthik can walk into an Australian Side ??

If Dharker is talking non-sense, then me too. Don't get worked up.

Yes Dharkar has no cricketing brains, He is the one who didn't want Sehwagh to Open for India(He actually wanted SS Das to continue to open for India), In recent Ind-Pak ODI series He first wanted Yuvraj to be dropped, then Kaif as well on the basis of Single performance. Needless to say all the three occasions he was proven wrong. He want Rohan Gavaskar to be in the Team in place of Md. Kaif. I can go on and one about This Dharkar dude. He has no cricket Brains at all, Actually none of the guys on Cricketnext have any cricketing brains at all.

Rest of your post doesn't deserve any response.

 

[Sanz]

He sometimes talks sense.

Never. Take a look at his Articles and find out yourself. http://www.cricketnext.com/features1/dharker/dharker.html