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Dhoni v Gilchrist
- Thread starter Jack1
- Start date
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Or maybe we're not fan boys and he's just way better than you're giving him credit for.
It is Dhoni not getting the credit he deserves here (voting is a personal choice I don't deny that, it is very close for me personally). Maybe he flexed on you too much with the helicopter shots however
Arachnodouche
International Captain
Gilchrist the superior cricketer in Tests. In ODIs, their keeping is approximately equal, though Dhoni will have more chances to effect some of those crazy stumpings and runouts. As batsmen, you'd think there's no substitute for Dhoni at his usual batting position, but plenty of explosive alternatives to Gilchrist as opener. If you were to open with Gilchrist as your keeper-batsman, then you would have to necessarily include Bevan in the side as Dhoni's analogue (assuming you can pick only one of Dhoni/Gilchrist). Good as those two were, it leaves the batting looking a little weak.
TheJediBrah
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You're not familiar with cricket in the 90s and early 00s are you?
Very familiar. I consider Bevan the best finisher in LO history so your comment has fallen on its face very quickly.
What do you think Gilchrist would have averaged for England then in this era including strike rate. Let's have a laugh and compare it to Bairstow, see how biased you are. Try to realise* the fact that test cricket means nothing.
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SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
This is blasphemy. Take it back!
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Noooooooo
(If you are only rating a player for ODIs)
TheJediBrah
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It was just a question. Take Bairstow and Roy back to the late 90s and they would be deers in headlights
smash84
The Tiger King
Speaking of LO formats only.
I think Dhoni seriously suffers from the last few years of his LO career where he **** all over himself and damaged his legacy somewhat. (quite a bit probably).
Peak Dhoni was a force to reckon with and easily a more valuable player than Gilchrist. Gilchrist was a good opener but there were plenty of pretty good ODI openers during his time. Anwar, M Waugh, Ganguly, Jayasuriya etc. There was pretty much nobody like Dhoni. Bevan might be close but peak Dhoni was like Bevan on steroids. Like Bevan he could get stuck at the crease, but unlike bevan's 1s and 2s, Dhoni would get a lot of boundaries with those 1s and 2s.
I think Dhoni seriously suffers from the last few years of his LO career where he **** all over himself and damaged his legacy somewhat. (quite a bit probably).
Peak Dhoni was a force to reckon with and easily a more valuable player than Gilchrist. Gilchrist was a good opener but there were plenty of pretty good ODI openers during his time. Anwar, M Waugh, Ganguly, Jayasuriya etc. There was pretty much nobody like Dhoni. Bevan might be close but peak Dhoni was like Bevan on steroids. Like Bevan he could get stuck at the crease, but unlike bevan's 1s and 2s, Dhoni would get a lot of boundaries with those 1s and 2s.
Bairstow and Roy have been too good in ODIs and CWC for you to really claim that conjecture about ATG bats. It's like saying Bevan wouldn't have a clue in this era because of strike rate, similar nonsense I've seen here in the past.
Burgey
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By the same token Aus didn't lose a WC game between 1999 and 2011, by which time Gilchrist had left. He was instrumental in the three WC final wins too.
I have Dhoni ahead of him as an ODI batsman because really good finishers are tough to find, but agree the idea that the gulf between them in that format is as wide as it is between them in tests kind of laughable.
TheJediBrah
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Roy's embarassing foray into Test cricket is more than enough to demonstrate that he wouldn't have been much use in ODIs >20 years ago IMO
You are using tests to judge an ODI player. Bevan has broken this logic - he was horrible in tests in that specific era and dominant in ODIs.
I will also say Roy isn't a FC opener, England shoehorned him in as opener in tests. His test average is very misleading, he averaged 41.66 in 3 innings when he didn't open. I wouldn't consider that embarrassing for him, more for the selectors. Opening in first class + test cricket is a specialist thing, as is basically every position (more so 1,2,3)
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TheJediBrah
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Bevan would have been fine given a longer run (but I don't want to start with that ****), and he wasn't an opening batsman which is the whole point. Opening in ODIs back then was completely different to now
Flem274*
123/5
Modern power openers like Roy are dead weight when their 350 par motorways and reserve bowlers are removed.
There's a reason a lot of test batsmen became so much more valuable in the wc and the wc final was a tie despite the statistics of the english batsmen. Roy especially had no answer to top tier bowling on the big stage. Was almost out first ball too.
There's a reason a lot of test batsmen became so much more valuable in the wc and the wc final was a tie despite the statistics of the english batsmen. Roy especially had no answer to top tier bowling on the big stage. Was almost out first ball too.
Roy averaged 63.28 in the 2019 World Cup with a 115.36 strike rate. This is next level cherry picking, trying to reduce an ATG batsman to dead weight based on one match (17 off 20) in their ODI career a match in which England's best test match batsman Root got 7 off 30 balls.
