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Dhoni is a superstar. Haters can suck it

vcs

vcs

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Burgey said:
Yeah though it says a fair bit that it comes down to something like that to make a difference.

Certainly it's hard to argue against those two as the best in ODIs, and they would most likely be 1&2 for me. All I was saying is RTP belongs in the argument and is a top tier, and I mean very top tier, ODI player.
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Like SS said, probably 3rd. Automatic in any ODI All-time XI.

Jono said:
Don't see why a 100 in a knockout needs to occur instead of an 80+ score vs. Pakistan in a match where no one scored a hundred? You have to put the amount of runs in context.

Was dropped a few times obviously, but without his runs India would have definitely lost to Pakistan.
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Yep, I realize it sounds ridiculously harsh to expect a century on demand like that in such high-pressure games, but that was just a personal criteria. Anyway, it's not a big deal. One knock is not going to drastically change anything because he had a superb World Cup anyway, just that it would have been a nice icing on the cake.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
smalishah84 said:
Agree with this.

It boils down to personal preference as well to a certain degree. I like finishers better compared to hard hitting batsmen up the order. Bevan type batsmen a rare breed.
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Me too. I have a greater respect for Bevan's 78* than many of Ponting's 100s, for example. The difference with Ponting making a huge score and Bevan was usually pressure, with the latter almost always under the pump when that kind of score was needed. With Bevan's 78* (and many other examples I can name) I was ****ting my pants, I don't know how he could overcome that kind of pressure out on the field...again...and again...and again. Incredible. The best player ever in terms of calculating a method to get to the result and minimising the risk he had to achieve it.

I also have no problem how people rate these guys - whether it be Viv, Sachin, Bevan or Ponting - but no player is 95>50 in ODIs. There is no Bradman equivalent. For me: Bevan >= Viv > Sachin > Ponting.

As an aside, I was looking through Youtube for Bevan innings and he has a 185* against Asia XI that he went absolutely berserk in. They lost by 1 run IIRC as the last shot a 6 was needed and his only went for a 4. Caddick also screwed them by not grounding his bat. Is one of the best ODI innings ever, even if it is not official.
 
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centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
vcs said:
Like SS said, probably 3rd. Automatic in any ODI All-time XI.



Yep, I realize it sounds ridiculously harsh to expect a century on demand like that in such high-pressure games, but that was just a personal criteria. Anyway, it's not a big deal. One knock is not going to drastically change anything because he had a superb World Cup anyway, just that it would have been a nice icing on the cake.
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His scores in the WC knock-out games
31, 65, 83, 4, 53, 85, 18
= 339 /7 = 48.43 avg
4 50's in 7 innings is pretty good, considering that he scores 50+ in every 3rd innings on avg.
A 100 is a 100 though haha
 
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vcs

vcs

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centurymaker said:
His scores in the WC knock-out games
31, 65, 83, 4, 53, 85, 18
= 339 /7 = 48.43 avg
4 50's in 7 innings is pretty good, considering that he scores 50+ in every 3rd innings on avg.
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Yeah, his record is very good, no question. And the sample size is just LOL compared to the size of his career, 7 games out of 450 odd. Still Viv averaging 70 odd in those knockout games with big hundreds in finals etc. to his name has got to count for something.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Ikki said:
Me too. I have a greater respect for Bevan's 78* than many of Ponting's 100s, for example. The difference with Ponting making a huge score and Bevan was usually pressure, with the latter almost always under the pump when that kind of score was needed. With Bevan's 78* (and many other examples I can name) I was ****ting my pants, I don't know how he could overcome that kind of pressure out on the field...again...and again...and again. Incredible. The best player ever in terms of calculating a method to get to the result and minimising the risk he had to achieve it.

I also have no problem how people rate these guys - whether it be Viv, Sachin, Bevan or Ponting - but no player is 95>50 in ODIs. There is no Bradman equivalent. For me: Bevan >= Viv > Sachin > Ponting.

As an aside, I was looking through Youtube for Bevan innings and he has a 185* against Asia XI that he went absolutely berserk in. They lost by 1 run IIRC as the last shot a 6 was needed and his only went for a 4. Caddick also screwed them by not grounding his bat. Is one of the best ODI innings ever, even if it is not official.
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wow, I had never heard of that knock. Could you post a link to it
?
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I remember that match.

It happened right after the Cronje match fixing affair was exposed right? Was it done as a charity/exhibition to promote cricket or something?

And yeah that Bevan knock was epic.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Maybe he means Lara at his peak, before he moved down the order.

If you did overall careers Viv and Sachin easily trump Lara in ODIs. But lara at his peak in ODIs is definitely in the argument.
 
vcs

vcs

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Jono said:
Maybe he means Lara at his peak, before he moved down the order.

If you did overall careers Viv and Sachin easily trump Lara in ODIs. But lara at his peak in ODIs is definitely in the argument.
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Yes, but that's why you cannot rate all-timers on their peaks alone. Or else, the likes of Klusener, Dhoni, Hayden etc. would all be up there.
 
Shri

Shri

Mr. Glass
silentstriker said:
Yea, definitely top five, and possibly #3.
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I can think of the following players who are arguably better than Ponting in ODIs:

Bevan
Richards
Tendulkar
Hussey
Dean Jones

Definitely top 10 and has a case for being in the top 5 but not a clear cut no.3 if you ask me.
 
Shri

Shri

Mr. Glass
Sachin's opinions or decisions aren't always the best guidelines to go by. Dada > Dhoni forever!:D
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Haha but Sachin only said Dhoni is the best captain he played under. That can't be argued, because Sachin feels Dhoni handled him the best.

Ganguly may well have been a better captain, but that's two different things.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
yeah.....it is how Sachin feels......still feel that Dhoni is the best ever Indian captain.........
 
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