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Dammit ....when will the revival happen ?

Athlai

Not Terrible
I just wonder whether it was a historical accident that WI ever dominated for as long as they did. They produced some world class/ great players over a couple of decades out of a group of very small, pretty poor nations without a lot of infrastructure. They were amazing, of course, but I don't know that they'll ever dominate like that again.

It really should be more about them getting the best out of their available talent with proper structures involved, and see where it all goes from there.
I dunno, despite the size and infrastructure issues, there is less drain from other sports on the talent pool than in Australia and New Zealand. It's far closer to being the dominant team sport there than anywhere else outside of the subcontinent.
 

Burgey

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True, but I really think the lack of infrastructure and resources is killing them in this day and age where most other test playing countries are capable of getting the best out of the talent at their disposal.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
True, but I really think the lack of infrastructure and resources is killing them in this day and age where most other test playing countries are capable of getting the best out of the talent at their disposal.
Yeah it can't go on like it is.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
True, but I really think the lack of infrastructure and resources is killing them in this day and age where most other test playing countries are capable of getting the best out of the talent at their disposal.
I can only speak for Trinidad but I have spoken to quite a few people in the game here. There are some interesting takeaways. Mainly it is cultural. Planning, coaching and attitude are the causes for concern.

Firstly, Trinidad is the 3rd wealthiest country GDP per capita in all the Americas. Resources are not really an issue like they may be in Jamaica. The issue is that they barely get an international game anymore so, rather than being the center of WI cricket, Trinidad and Tobago is now an outpost. Both Eng and Aus visit WI in 2015 and neither will play a game in Trinidad - by far the wealthiest and second largest island part of WICB. Games are played in Jamaica (largest pop in WI), Barbados (favoured tourist location) and the small islands who use government money to bring the games to their islands. Trinidad play their games at the privately owned Queens Park Oval Club and I understand that govt money isnt used.

The younger players love playing cricket but there is certainly less interest in the history of cricket than in other countries in which I have lived. The WI cricketers are less versed in the history of their own Test team. I have heard stories of current international players knowing nothing of the great players in the 70s and 80s. And, sadly, when they do mix, the older players often treat the younger players quite poorly.

Location. WI are on the fringes, geographically, of world cricket and fragmented. It may seem irrelevant in the 21st century with the speed at which technology travels but it plays a huge role. Those involved in developing cricketers (by the time players are in their 20s and traveling the globe it is possibly too late) have been insulated from the explosion of ideas cricket has experienced. The thinking really is a little backwards and, sadly, people do not realize that it is dated and backwards.

The love for the game is still in Trinidad and Tobago but coaches and administrators come across as even more self-important than elsewhere and more interested in their own position and influence than the greater good. I dont blame the players and parents of those being developed as they know no better but it would help if they were more 'well read' in terms of the global game and developments rather than just having a passion for playing.

People still play and watch the game in WI. The game has just unfortunately passed them by in terms of coaching and administration and they don't realise it. Even in some moments of clarity when they can see an issue, people move quickly to protect their interests.

These, sadly, are issues that have no real short term solution. It is tough to change insular attitudes quickly .
 
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Burgey

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Great insights there Goughy. I didn't realise T&T was so well healed. I'd love to see them get back to being consistently competitive home and away too. But if, as you say, the ideas surrounding the game have passed them by, they need a massive shake up from the top down.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Great insights there Goughy. I didn't realise T&T was so well healed. I'd love to see them get back to being consistently competitive home and away too. But if, as you say, the ideas surrounding the game have passed them by, they need a massive shake up from the top down.
Yeah, between Portugal & Argentina in terms of per capita income and 3-4 times that of Jamaica. That has quadrupled since the turn of the Millennium ($5k US to over $20k US). In 2000 Barbados had double the per capita income of Trinidad but now has far less. The question is how well that money is being used by the government and how well institutions can cope with the continued abundance of oil & gas industry money pouring in.

Increasingly TT is moving towards South America and away from the other Caribbean islands based on how the economy is structured. TT isnt an idyllic Caribbean island. It has an industrial motor (eg it is the world's largest exporter of ammonia and the world’s sixth-largest LNG exporter.)

The money and interest is here. They just need the know how and a system shake up to make use of their resources.

One example to lend a little context - I recently went to net and had a bowl at one of the major cricket clubs. The facilities were poor and possibly dangerous, there was a coach but no coaching, the organization was a shambles and no one was putting any effort in and there was no structure or plan. It was a waste of time. Was there any talent there? I dont know. It was impossible to tell. The sad fact is that they thought they were fantastic. I can compare that the the top level clubs I played at in SA and UK and see how sub-standard it was (money has nothing to do with this just 100% organisation and effort) but they couldn't - not that I said anything of course.
 
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ImpatientLime

International Regular
My childhood favorite sporting team - the mighty West Indies. The only reason I got somewhat distracted from my beloved field hockey to this bloody sport was the West Indies - not even Pakistan enthralled me as much as watching Richie, Curtly , Ian Bishop and co.
Loved watching Curtly putting the fear of God into the Aussies.


20 years of mediocrity.
20 years the Frank Worrell trophy has been with the dark side. 20 years in which the WIndies have lost repeatedly to England - bloody England of all teams.
20 years in which home series have been lost to India - a team that doesn't know the meaning of the word fast bowler.



The talent is there - Braithwaite , Dazza Bravo, Blackwood in the batting.
Roach, Holder, Gariel, Cottrell, Beaton, Jordan, Taylor in the quick bowling - I feel the WIndies have the best fast bowling pool in years.
And West Indian players are natural athletes - they are probably the strongest and fittest athletes of all cricketing nations.

The oft touted claim that West Indian kids are not into cricket anymore is not true - the Windies are still throwing up plenty of talented players.
Some sustained discipline boys - all that's needed and the WIndies will climb back up the rankings.

Australia fear a West Indies revival more than anything else. South Africa almost always come off second best to Australia, England are mediocre, India and Sri Lanka have no decent pace bowlers , NZl will be competitive but never dominate. Pakistan have the bowlers to knock the Aussies off but their batting is brittle and their organization/discipline is woeful. The West Indies board, as bad as it is is probably still better than the PCB.


CARN WINDIES .....and please don't lose to Ireland on Monday.
yeah arrogance like this is what'll revive them.

how dare those superior team repeatedly whoop us!
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Their "anthem" is asking people to rally around the West Indies, but half their players cbf doing so themselves. **** 'em.
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
Excellent posts Goughy. There is a culture in both T & T and Guyana where talented young players from other parts of the country rely on the kindess of businessmen to fund their travel and equipment so they can join the 3/4 clubs that actually have usable facilities. WIthout the support of a couple of kind gentlemen, Shiv wouldn't have joined the GCC, Sarwan would still be in Essiquibo etc. There are numerous examples. How many talented young cricketers get missed because they never get the chance to access those facilities?

Also, we can never progress with the WICB like it is. It doesn't matter how much tallent we continue to produce, it won't be refined. Dave Cameron is about to be re-elected as board president even after wracking up a 42 Million dollar debt, sacking Gibson mid last year and still not replacing him 8 months later so the team have been withoiut guidance on 2 major overseas tours and the ICC's biggest tournament. Things are worse than ever and this idiot is about to walk right back into his job.

Also, something has gone wrong with an entire generation of cricketers. It cannot be denied that the likes of Gayle, Samuels and co don't really give a damn. How can you explain a performance like yesterdays against Ireland (which admittedly I didn't watch but I have read enough about it to picture the scene)? No matter how low we have sank we still have a lot of talent and should not be losing to Ireland in such circumstances. I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant, but it's true. Just look at the two lineups ffs, even without Pollard and Bravo. The players showed scant regard for the fans that spend vasts amount of money and time to watch their sorry arses.

I get most of my enjoyment from watching young cricketers in domestic cricket nowadays before they get sucked up into the system and inevitably fail.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Excellent posts Goughy. There is a culture in both T & T and Guyana where talented young players from other parts of the country rely on the kindess of businessmen to fund their travel and equipment so they can join the 3/4 clubs that actually have usable facilities. WIthout the support of a couple of kind gentlemen, Shiv wouldn't have joined the GCC, Sarwan would still be in Essiquibo etc. There are numerous examples. How many talented young cricketers get missed because they never get the chance to access those facilities?

Also, we can never progress with the WICB like it is. It doesn't matter how much tallent we continue to produce, it won't be refined. Dave Cameron is about to be re-elected as board president even after wracking up a 42 Million dollar debt, sacking Gibson mid last year and still not replacing him 8 months later so the team have been withoiut guidance on 2 major overseas tours and the ICC's biggest tournament. Things are worse than ever and this idiot is about to walk right back into his job.

Also, something has gone wrong with an entire generation of cricketers. It cannot be denied that the likes of Gayle, Samuels and co don't really give a damn. How can you explain a performance like yesterdays against Ireland (which admittedly I didn't watch but I have read enough about it to picture the scene)? No matter how low we have sank we still have a lot of talent and should not be losing to Ireland in such circumstances. I'm sorry if that sounds arrogant, but it's true. Just look at the two lineups ffs, even without Pollard and Bravo. The players showed scant regard for the fans that spend vasts amount of money and time to watch their sorry arses.

I get most of my enjoyment from watching young cricketers in domestic cricket nowadays before they get sucked up into the system and inevitably fail.
You raise an important point which I had not considered and am perhaps guilty of myself. When I think of TT cricket I think of Port of Spain -- more precisely QPCC and other surrounding clubs. There could definitely be a more inclusive atmosphere locally.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
If they continue as they are then it wo 't be long before England and India start treating them like Bangladesh and stop inviting them to tour.

Frankly they barely deserve Test status as it is, they're an embarrassment to the game.
 

morgieb

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If they continue as they are then it wo 't be long before England and India start treating them like Bangladesh and stop inviting them to tour.

Frankly they barely deserve Test status as it is, they're an embarrassment to the game.
Think we treat the lesser Test nations worse than you do, Bangladesh has never toured here in our summer.
 

morgieb

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What's scary is that about 2 years ago things were looking relatively rosy for the West Indies - no they weren't gonna get to their old glory, but they looked a pretty competent Test side, and even six months ago you could say they weren't terrible. Now they are in pretty dire straits.

Hopefully them missing the QF's is the kick up the arse the WICB needs. I'm not optimistic though.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Nah 6 months ago they had the core of a good team. Braithwaite, Bravo and Roach would make many other test teams. Ramdin was improved, they had some good young quicks around and of course their ace was Shiv.

Then India happened.
 

Grumpy

U19 Vice-Captain
All it takes is for the next ATG to appear for a team to rally around. Considering the Windies history, they will produce one.
 

OverratedSanity

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One or two even ATGs won't help them in their current state because there are so many other factors at play here, primarily that the board is filled with incompetent *****. It's sad to see because as Flem said, 6 months ago, I definitely felt there was promise for the future.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
One or two even ATGs won't help them in their current state because there are so many other factors at play here, primarily that the board is filled with incompetent *****. It's sad to see because as Flem said, 6 months ago, I definitely felt there was promise for the future.
Disagree.
 

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