CW's Ranking of Pace Bowlers (Tests)

[Nikhil99.99]

Lillee's away average is around 24.5 though and with pretty much nothing to speak of in the subcontinent and WI. Whereas Imran had won matches all over and did better than anyone in the WI itself.

I would still take Imran's record over Lillee's.

By pure stats you’re right.
But hadlee,Marshall,bradman,imran ,sobers and Benaud considered lillee to be greatest.That just can’t be ignored.Lillee had bigger reputation than any fast bowler I have seen.
Lillees reputation seem to go down every year.As people more and more start to judge by pure stat.

 

[kyear2]

When you look at over all records and home and away records, there really is a drop off after the top 5.

This is when it gets somewhat difficult. Trueman, Lillee, Imran..... Or even Lindwall?

 

[PlayerComparisons]

By pure stats you’re right.
But hadlee,Marshall,bradman,imran ,sobers and Benaud considered lillee to be greatest.That just can’t be ignored.Lillee had bigger reputation than any fast bowler I have seen.
Lillees reputation seem to go down every year.As people more and more start to judge by pure stat.

I reckon if you ranked bowlers based on peer ratings, the top 3 would be Marshall, Akram, and Lillee in that order.

 

[kyear2]

By pure stats you’re right.
But hadlee,Marshall,bradman,imran ,sobers and Benaud considered lillee to be greatest.That just can’t be ignored.Lillee had bigger reputation than any fast bowler I have seen.
Lillees reputation seem to go down every year.As people more and more start to judge by pure stat.

The bravado, the theatrics, the excitement he generated, but how can that compare to Hadlee's, Magrath's or Marshall's actual performances.
There is also a bit of respect because he was, among the modern practitioners, the first, the pioneer. But also why we just can't look at peer reviews in a vacuum. Have to factor in all aspects.

 

[kyear2]

I reckon if you ranked bowlers based on peer ratings, the top 3 would be Marshall, Akram, and Lillee in that order.

Likely

 

[PlayerComparisons]

When you look at over all records and home and away records, there really is a drop off after the top 5.

This is when it gets somewhat difficult. Trueman, Lillee, Imran..... Or even Lindwall?

Tier 1: Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn
Tier 2: Imran, Lillee, Trueman, Wasim, Donald, Garner, Lindwall, Holding, Davidson
Tier 3: Waqar, Pollock, Walsh, Roberts, etc

 

[Nikhil99.99]

I reckon if you ranked bowlers based on peer ratings, the top 3 would be Marshall, Akram, and Lillee in that order.

Lillee would be 1.His peer rating is higher than of Marshall or akram.He did beat both of them in espn legends of cricket or in 5 cricketer of the century or in espn all time xi.

 

[subshakerz]

By pure stats you’re right.
But hadlee,Marshall,bradman,imran ,sobers and Benaud considered lillee to be greatest.That just can’t be ignored.Lillee had bigger reputation than any fast bowler I have seen.
Lillees reputation seem to go down every year.As people more and more start to judge by pure stat.

Yes his reputation was the highest but also remember he really took off as a bowler years before the other did and already had cemented his reputation at a time before there were many ATG pacers around.

The biggest problem for Lillee is not having succeeded away in the subcontinent or WI. That is too big a hole to ignore. Even his mate Thommo put Marshall ahead for that reason.

 

[subshakerz]

Tier 1: Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn
Tier 2: Imran, Lillee, Trueman, Wasim, Donald, Garner, Lindwall, Holding, Davidson
Tier 3: Waqar, Pollock, Walsh, Roberts, etc

Tier one should be Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee as the most unimpeachable records as ATGS. Even on this board we almost all agree with them in the top three.

Tier two should be Ambrose, Steyn, Imran, Lillee, Wasim and Trueman, all who were immediately recognized as top tier ATGs in their own careers but have holes in their records. It would be inconceivable for us to leave any of them out of the 10 best ever based on reputation and record alone but we can all argue who merits a place over who based on which strength or weakness.

Tier three should be Donald, Garner, Holding, etc. who never quite garnered the same level of unanimous undisputed ATG status during their careers but have worldclass stats.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Tier one should be Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee as the most unimpeachable records as ATGS. Even on this board we almost all agree with them in the top three.

Tier two should be Ambrose, Steyn, Imran, Lillee, Wasim and Trueman, all who were immediately recognized as top tier ATGs in their own careers but have holes in their records. Nobody would bat an eye saying that any of them is the best ever.

Tier three should be Donald, Garner, Holding, etc. who never quite garnered the same level of unanimous undisputed ATG status during their careers but have worldclass stats.

The gap between like Ambrose/Steyn and the next 4 is a bit too large for me to put them in the same tier. Think Ambrose at least is extremely close to Mcgrath and Hadlee. Maybe based on peer ratings, Donald/Garner/Holding aren't at the same level as those tier 2 guys, but based on their career performances they definitely are in tier 2 for me. But then if we're using peer ratings, then Mcgrath and Hadlee should probably switch with Wasim and Lillee.

 

[kyear2]

This will be surprising and will be seen as a homer pick. But, going through their records

Michael Holding.

 

[kyear2]

Lillee would be 1.His peer rating is higher than of Marshall or akram.He did beat both of them in espn legends of cricket or in 5 cricketer of the century or in espn all time xi.

The voting after the top 2 or 3 was very sporadic and spread out. And if we're being honest very Aus / Eng centric. That's where cricket was, no way Lille could or should have been higher than Imran for instance, not as an overall player. The WI pavers were also looked down upon by a lot of English and Australian journalist and even some past players. Benaud being the most famous among them

 

[kyear2]

Tier 1: Marshall, Mcgrath, Hadlee, Ambrose, Steyn
Tier 2: Imran, Lillee, Trueman, Wasim, Donald, Garner, Lindwall, Holding, Davidson
Tier 3: Waqar, Pollock, Walsh, Roberts, etc

"Disagree" very slightly. Not with the order but.

Marshall

McGrath / Hadlee

Ambrose / Steyn (just a hair below the tier above, records just not as bullet proof)

Not in order and using yours..
Imran / Lillee / Trueman / Wasim / Donald / Garner / Lindwall / Holding / Davidson

 

[gftw]

Lillee - 7
Imran - 10
Wasim - 4
Trueman - 1
Holding - 1

The List
1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn Mcgrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Curtly Ambrose
5. Dale Steyn
6. Imran Khan

The vote for the #7 test pace bowler of all-time begins now.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

"Disagree" very slightly. Not with the order but.

Marshall

McGrath / Hadlee

Ambrose / Steyn (just a hair below the tier above, records just not as bullet proof)

Not in order and using yours..
Imran / Lillee / Trueman / Wasim / Donald / Garner / Lindwall / Holding / Davidson

Tbh I agree with this. I guess my version is just if I had to limit it to fewer tiers.

 

[Daemon]

Lillee

 

[subshakerz]

Lillee finally.

 

[kyear2]

Tier one should be Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee as the most unimpeachable records as ATGS. Even on this board we almost all agree with them in the top three.

Tier two should be Ambrose, Steyn, Imran, Lillee, Wasim and Trueman, all who were immediately recognized as top tier ATGs in their own careers but have holes in their records. It would be inconceivable for us to leave any of them out of the 10 best ever based on reputation and record alone but we can all argue who merits a place over who based on which strength or weakness.

Tier three should be Donald, Garner, Holding, etc. who never quite garnered the same level of unanimous undisputed ATG status during their careers but have worldclass stats.

Yeah, there is a gap between Ambrose / Steyn and the others, that's just my humble opinion.

Holding, Donald and Garner definitely deserve a place with the guys you have mentioned in your second tier. Holding wasn't rated much behind Lillee when they played, unfortunately his greatest issue was staying fit and on the field.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Wasim Akram

 

[kyear2]

So my previous pick was between Holding and Donald. Donald gets knocked because of his performances vs Australia, but he does statistically outperform Holding in practically every catergory, especially wpm.

Soo, Allan Donald, just...