CW's Ranking of Batsmen (Tests)

[trundler]

Ponting’s record in India is pretty ordinary...
14 Tests, 662 runs at an average of 26.

And so, when Australia did finally make their break through series win against India in India it was Damien Martyn who scored all the runs.

But yeah, apart from that Ponting was superb. Which is why he’s my avatar.

Chappell never played in India.

 

[kyear2]

Ponting

 

[The Sean]

If we're looking at averages Pollock (60.97) > Barrington (58.67) > Sangakarra (57.40) > G.Chappell (53.86) > Ponting (51.85) > Border (50.56)
I agree, this poll has Chappell too high.

Voges unlucky to miss out there.

 

[trundler]

I know it sounds like I'm deliberately being anal about this but people don't grasp the enormity of playing 160+ tests. Chappell averaged 2 runs more over almost half as many tests. Big deal. Just because we had Kallis, Dravid and Ponting at the same time makes it seem like less of a herculean feat but just look at Smith's and Kohli's career trajectories. Don't think any current batsman will end up playing that many tests apart from Root and I'll be pretty impressed if he averages 50 at the end of his career if he does. Ponting had established himself as the best Australian batsman since Bradman by '08 and his peak was freakish and as good as Viv for mine. And he had already had a fairly long career by then. As long as Chappell. As OS pointed out, the 70s pre-quartet weren't an especially strong bowling era. Who was the best English bowler? Willis. Very good bowler but hardly makes the attacks of that era better than what Ponting faced.

I have a soft spot for Ponting tho.

 

[kyear2]

I know it sounds like I'm deliberately being anal about this but people don't grasp the enormity of playing 160+ tests. Chappell averaged 2 runs more over almost half as many tests. Big deal. Just because we had Kallis, Dravid and Ponting at the same time makes it seem like less of a herculean feat but just look at how Smith and Kohli's career trajectories. Don't think any current batsman will end up playing that many tests apart from Root and I'll be pretty impressed if he averages 50 at the end of his career if he does. Ponting had established himself as the best Australian batsman since Bradman by '08 and his peak was freakish and as good as Viv for mine. And he had already had a fairly long career by then. As long as Chappell. As OS pointed out, the 70s pre-quartet weren't an especially strong bowling era. Who was the best English bowler? Willis. Very good bowler but hardly makes the attacks of that era better than what Ponting faced.

I have a soft spot for Ponting tho.

As I've said many times, there were times during his peak that I though he was going to end up ranked higher than Tendulkar and Lara. He was just scoring so consistently and there was almost a Viv like brutality about it at times.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I know it sounds like I'm deliberately being anal about this but people don't grasp the enormity of playing 160+ tests. Chappell averaged 2 runs more over almost half as many tests. Big deal. Just because we had Kallis, Dravid and Ponting at the same time makes it seem like less of a herculean feat but just look at Smith's and Kohli's career trajectories. Don't think any current batsman will end up playing that many tests apart from Root and I'll be pretty impressed if he averages 50 at the end of his career if he does. Ponting had established himself as the best Australian batsman since Bradman by '08 and his peak was freakish and as good as Viv for mine. And he had already had a fairly long career by then. As long as Chappell. As OS pointed out, the 70s pre-quartet weren't an especially strong bowling era. Who was the best English bowler? Willis. Very good bowler but hardly makes the attacks of that era better than what Ponting faced.

I have a soft spot for Ponting tho.

5-6 batsmen averaged above 50 in 70s and 80s.
20 or more batsmen averaged 50+ in 2000s.
Thats a huge difference, looking at those numbers .. Its safe to say that Ponting would have averaged less than 50 in Chappell Era.

Number of matches is not a big issue, if it is.. Bradman, ODI ratings of Viv, Garner.. Etc will suffer.

 

[trundler]

5-6 batsmen averaged above 50 in 70s and 80s.
20 or more batsmen averaged 50+ in 2000s.
Thats a huge difference, looking at those numbers .. Its safe to say that Ponting would have averaged less than 50 in Chappell Era.

Number of matches is not a big issue, if it is.. Bradman, ODI ratings of Viv, Garner.. Etc will suffer.

The 80s were obviously much, much rougher for batsmen but not the 70s, especially the first half. Chappell stopped touring after 1980, didn't he? And Ponting didn't average 50 at his peak, it was 60 after 100(!) tests and 70 in his peak years. Chappell played way fewer tests than Viv, Gavaskar, Miandad and Border too so it's not like we're penalising him for being from an earlier era. Number of matched by itself doesn't mean much but c'mon PFK, I shouldn't have to explain to you how playing past the point which Chappell had retired doesn't make Ponting worse.

1970s Cricket Team Records & Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com

Read about Records, / , 1970s, / , Test matches, / , Highest averages Cricket Team Records only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Check the Stats & Records of Records, / , 1970s, / , Test matches, / , Highest averages Players in ✓ Wicket keeper ✓ Batting ✓ Bowling

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

The 80s were obviously much, much rougher for batsmen but not the 70s, especially the first half. Chappell stopped touring after 1980, didn't he? And Ponting didn't average 50 at his peak, it was 60 after 100(!) tests and 70 in his peak years. Chappell played way fewer tests than Viv, Gavaskar, Miandad and Border too so it's not like we're penalising him for being from an earlier era. Number of matched by itself doesn't mean much but c'mon PFK, I shouldn't have to explain to you how playing past the point which Chappell had retired doesn't make Ponting worse.

1970s Cricket Team Records & Stats | ESPNcricinfo.com

Read about Records, / , 1970s, / , Test matches, / , Highest averages Cricket Team Records only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Check the Stats & Records of Records, / , 1970s, / , Test matches, / , Highest averages Players in ✓ Wicket keeper ✓ Batting ✓ Bowling

stats.espncricinfo.com

Talking about averages only.

Chappell averaged 54 in a 14 year career.
Ponting averaged 55 after 14 years.. Which is equivalent of 50 (aprox) in Chappell era.
( Ponting played 3 more years and averaged 52 overall, which is definitely below 50 in Chappell era. Thats not a negative when comparing to Chappell, but averaging less than 50 would have affected opinions )

Off course there are lot of other things to consider, and no way one is inarguably better than the other.. We are splitting hairs here. Its just I rate Chappell slightly higher.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Talking about averages only.

Chappell averaged 54 in a 14 year career.
Ponting averaged 55 after 14 years.. Which is equivalent of 50 (aprox) in Chappell era.
( Ponting played 3 more years and averaged 52 overall, which is definitely below 50 in Chappell era. Thats not a negative when comparing to Chappell, but averaging less than 50 would have affected opinions )

Off course there are lot of other things to consider, and no way one is inarguably better than the other.. We are splitting hairs here. Its just I rate Chappell slightly higher.

Dec 1970 to Jan 1984 is barely a little over 13 years. FRAUD.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Dec 1970 to Jan 1984 is barely a little over 13 years. FRAUD.

Yes.
Thats 54 vs 57 then.
But, Chappell lost more than 1 year to WSC when he was in prime form.

 

[HookShot]

Yes.
Thats 54 vs 57 then.
But, Chappell lost more than 1 year to WSC when he was in prime form.

Cricket Australia officially recognises WSC stats.

So the extra runs scored in WSC by Greg Chappell’s increases his overall batting average to 54.30

WSC stats officially recognised by CA | cricket.com.au

Cricket Australia announce an official statistical record of player numbers from World Series…

www.cricket.com.au

 

[Immenso]

Pollock

 

[Immenso]

I know it sounds like I'm deliberately being anal about this but people don't grasp the enormity of playing 160+ tests. Chappell averaged 2 runs more over almost half as many tests. Big deal. Just because we had Kallis, Dravid and Ponting at the same time makes it seem like less of a herculean feat but just look at Smith's and Kohli's career trajectories. Don't think any current batsman will end up playing that many tests apart from Root and I'll be pretty impressed if he averages 50 at the end of his career if he does. Ponting had established himself as the best Australian batsman since Bradman by '08 and his peak was freakish and as good as Viv for mine. And he had already had a fairly long career by then. As long as Chappell. As OS pointed out, the 70s pre-quartet weren't an especially strong bowling era. Who was the best English bowler? Willis. Very good bowler but hardly makes the attacks of that era better than what Ponting faced.

I have a soft spot for Ponting tho.

I reckon you are over rating enormity of playing 160+ tests. Time (years) is a better metric.

 

[trundler]

I reckon you are over rating enormity of playing 160+ tests. Time (years) is a better metric.

Maybe but I think Border playing 150+ tests on the trot is the most freakish feat of single-minded determination too. And I rate Gavaskar and Viv who played fewer tests but had similarly long career very highly too. It's not just the number of tests overall, Chappell had a shorter career than his contemporaries too. And I don't think we're likely to see blokes play that many tests despite test spam.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Maybe but I think Border playing 150+ tests on the trot is the most freakish feat of single-minded determination too. And I rate Gavaskar and Viv who played fewer tests but had similarly long career very highly too. It's not just the number of tests overall, Chappell had a shorter career than his contemporaries too. And I don't think we're likely to see blokes play that many tests despite test spam.

Yeah but no one is saying Chappell is better than Gavaskar or Viv. The latter two both were voted far higher in this thread. Chappell's career was like 2 years shorter than Borders, but I'm pretty sure he was rated higher than Border by his peers. I don't think 2-3 years is that significant either. Sobers played for 4-5 years less than Tendulkar and less than half the tests, but still came ahead in this thread. It also depends on what kind of batting style you prefer. Chappell was more like Ponting/Sangakkara strike rate, while Border was more like Kallis/Dravid strike rate (slower than them actually). Ponting and Sangakkara are typically rated higher than Dravid and Kallis though and I think a lot of that comes down to their attacking batting style/strike rate. Chappell also batted higher up the order at 3 and 4 while Border batted down the order at 5 and 6.

 

[The Sean]

Border batted down the order at 5 and 6.

He did, but to be fair he also batted more often at 4 than anywhere else, and even did a stint at 3.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

He did, but to be fair he also batted more often at 4 than anywhere else, and even did a stint at 3.

Oh you're right. 88 innings at 4, 70 innings at 5, 63 innings at 6. Still like half of his innings down the order, but I guess he did bat up the order a significant amount.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

There’s nothing particularly wrong with rating Ponting above Chappell or vice versa, but it does look a bit like a schoolboy crush.

 

[ataraxia]

Yes.
Thats 54 vs 57 then.
But, Chappell lost more than 1 year to WSC when he was in prime form.

12 years then. FRAUD.

 

[The Sean]

Plus the extra season he lost playing against ROW in unofficial Tests!