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Criticising Tendulkar the in thing

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
ok no point in taking this further, we agree to disagree...:)
Fair enough, but can I ask Anil, had a player replacing Tendulkar in the team done the exact same thing as Sachin, would you have been critical of him and his slow scoring rate?
 

sohummisra

U19 Debutant
If you think he doesn't, then I bring you all back to the original question. Would you have criticised Badrinath or enter any other Indian domestic player had they did the exact same thing Sachin did vs. Bangladesh. Because its "no different", you've all been saying the team comes first and its not all about Sachin.
I don't think that question is contextually correct. Because Badrinath, if he was selected, would not have been one of the top batsmen in the country at the time of his selection. He is expected to perform, but he's not supposed to perform as Tendulkar is--because he doesn't have the experience or the runs behind him.

In the case of a debutant, Sachin's innings would have been a dream debut, because they would have had no experience of international cricket beforehand.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
But I also think there are certain expectations from him that must be met. I think some of the criticism is unfair, but some of it is fair. I think he could play more positive cricket whilst not endangering his wicket and that would help the team out more.
But If we talk about the Bangladesh Innings, it was a positive inning. Wasn't it ? I mean you would take it If it were scored by a debutant, wouldn't you ? I still want to know the 'Fair' part in the criticism. Sachin is coming off of rough patch, scores at decent rate against BD, still gets criticized. What is fair in that

I also think the Indian team has to shift their batting strategies around a bit and that they could get more utility from the current batsmen if they redefined the roles for each one. I don't think Sachin is at his most useful for the team in the manner he played in Bangladesh.
Whether or not Sachin is useful for the team with this style is upto the team management to decide. I think team management will be pleased if tendulkar can bat like that.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think that question is contextually correct. Because Badrinath, if he was selected, would not have been one of the top batsmen in the country at the time of his selection. He is expected to perform, but he's not supposed to perform as Tendulkar is--because he doesn't have the experience or the runs behind him.

In the case of a debutant, Sachin's innings would have been a dream debut, because they would have had no experience of international cricket beforehand.
Would you take it If Yuvraj/Sehwag/Laxman/Ganguly/Jaffer etc scored a century like that ?
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Yeah even better point Sanz. Forget a domestic debutant scoring it like Sachin did.

What if it was Yuvraj? Hell, what if it was Sehwag? I reckon people would have claimed some new form of "maturity" from them, where they respects the bowlers.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
And again, for the last time, I was listing the faults of the Indian team in that post which Pratyush brought up in the opening post of this thread. I had mentioned about everyone else's faults (IMHO, obviously) in that post too. It was not meant to be and it most certainly isn't a criticism of just Sachin.
No one is thinking you were singling out Tendulkar.. and no one is targeting you. So just chill.
 
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Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Fair enough, but can I ask Anil, had a player replacing Tendulkar in the team done the exact same thing as Sachin, would you have been critical of him and his slow scoring rate?
ok one more post, no one thought of these points before that article came out, one of the main reasons it did was because the guy was the most experienced player in the team and the most exceptional and yet had done that, if the guy replacing him had been of the same or similar calibre, maybe the same questions might have been raised, i don't know, if not the questions even if raised would be mostly irrelevant...
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Would you take it If Yuvraj/Sehwag/Laxman/Ganguly/Jaffer etc scored a century like that ?

Nope, I would have faulted them too. Given the situation and the bowling attack and the pitch, it was not what was expected from him by the team and it doesn’t matter who the “he” here is, I would have said the same thing.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Nope, I would have faulted them too. Given the situation and the bowling attack and the pitch, it was not what was expected from him by the team and it doesn’t matter who the “he” here is, I would have said the same thing.
HB, the question was not really for you. ;) But anyways appreciate your response.
 

SightForTheGods

Cricket Spectator
Give Tendulkar a break. He has done his service and he continues to do a decent job. We can't expect him to hit a century in every game or something of that sort. I am sure that he will do well in the upcoming England season. I am counting (or at least hoping) on at least 2 centuries in the 3 tests. Lets wait and see...
 

sohummisra

U19 Debutant
Would you take it If Yuvraj/Sehwag/Laxman/Ganguly/Jaffer etc scored a century like that ?
Yuvraj - no, he's a strokemaker in his prime
Sehwag - definitely not
Laxman - no, one would expect with his experience to press things on and he is also a marvelous player of spin bowling
Ganguly - he's been playing these types of innings (much to my ire) since his comeback to the Test and ODI teams, so I would be displeased
Jaffer - not really a valid comparison because Jaffer is an opening batsman

So, in short, I wouldn't accept this innings from anyone in the current team. But for a guy coming it with no experience, such as Badrinath, it would have been a good debut. We saw Karthik get off to a lackadaisical start in the same match. But once he got settled, he really put the bowlers away after lunch.
 

sohummisra

U19 Debutant
But If we talk about the Bangladesh Innings, it was a positive inning. Wasn't it ? I mean you would take it If it were scored by a debutant, wouldn't you ? I still want to know the 'Fair' part in the criticism. Sachin is coming off of rough patch, scores at decent rate against BD, still gets criticized. What is fair in that
It was not a positive innings. It would have been a good innings for a debutant because of the runs scored and not the manner in which the runs were scored. And the criticism isn't based solidly on the Bangladesh series, but his new batting style over the last few series he has played in.

Whether or not Sachin is useful for the team with this style is upto the team management to decide. I think team management will be pleased if tendulkar can bat like that.
We here obviously have no clue what the team management has in store for Sachin. I am only speculating, obviously, that Sachin would be more useful with a different style. Any hypothetical situation such as this obviously cannot be backed up until it happens.
 

sohummisra

U19 Debutant
Give Tendulkar a break. He has done his service and he continues to do a decent job. We can't expect him to hit a century in every game or something of that sort. I am sure that he will do well in the upcoming England season. I am counting (or at least hoping) on at least 2 centuries in the 3 tests. Lets wait and see...
Looks like one of the canned Tendulkar defense slogans. He did score a couple of centuries in two games and that is good from a statistical point of view. But I still don't think he gave himself the best preparation for the England series because the Bangla series gave him a chance to be more positive without taking too many risks (like the batsmen around him did).
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Ganguly - he's been playing these types of innings (much to my ire) since his comeback to the Test and ODI teams, so I would be displeased
He hasn't been playing 'these types of innings' in Test matches, he's been batting above his career strike rate since his comeback.
 

SightForTheGods

Cricket Spectator
Looks like one of the canned Tendulkar defense slogans. He did score a couple of centuries in two games and that is good from a statistical point of view. But I still don't think he gave himself the best preparation for the England series because the Bangla series gave him a chance to be more positive without taking too many risks (like the batsmen around him did).
Then tell me what would give him the best preparation for the England series ? I feel he and the rest did the right thing as they knew what total to put up in order to win the game. Besides it's a test game, why should he take un-needed risks ?!
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Then tell me what would give him the best preparation for the England series ? I feel he and the rest did the right thing as they knew what total to put up in order to win the game. Besides it's a test game, why should he take un-needed risks ?!

because it was not "un-needed"? It was obvious India were trying to press home the advantage by trying to get quick runs and yet Sachin was consciously going slow out there. Obviously, it didn't matter as far as that game was concerned, but he had gotten a century in the previous match itself, so it was not like he was trying get back into form or whatever.
 

SightForTheGods

Cricket Spectator
because it was not "un-needed"? It was obvious India were trying to press home the advantage by trying to get quick runs and yet Sachin was consciously going slow out there. Obviously, it didn't matter as far as that game was concerned, but he had gotten a century in the previous match itself, so it was not like he was trying get back into form or whatever.
Hmm..."India were press home the advantage by trying to get quick runs" Take a look at the strike rates of all the players...Seems like Dhoni was the only one who was smashing. I feel Dravid layed out a plan. I don't see why he needed to swing his bat.

Also, what does his century in his previous game have to do with the 2nd test ?
 
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