Cricket's Great Myths

[Godard]

Nope.

Well then i don’t share that opinion.

 

[Godard]

Sobers as bowler is roughly comparable to Imran as a bat IMO in terms of output and role, Sobers being a 4th seamer/spinner and 2 wickets plus a test vs a no.6/7 mid-30s averaging bat.

But his batting is slightly ahead of Imran's bowling.

I would have Imran as number 5 in my overall bowlers list(with Steyn and Murali marginally below), after Marshall, Mcgrath, Haldee and Warne in that order. I would have Sobers at 5 too, behind Bradman, Tendulkar, Hobbs and Viv.

 

[Godard]

Sobers as bowler is roughly comparable to Imran as a bat IMO in terms of output and role, Sobers being a 4th seamer/spinner and 2 wickets plus a test vs a no.6/7 mid-30s averaging bat.

But his batting is slightly ahead of Imran's bowling.

I would just put Sobers bowling ahead of Imran’s batting, cause of the variety he offers.

 

[Gob]

How much would Viv average in India against Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar?

 

[Godard]

How much would Viv average in India against Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar?

Well he did decently against the quartet in his debut series in Ind, smashed them in WI. He did very well vs Abdul Qadir and the other Pakistan spinners in 1980/81 in Pak and vs him in 1986/87 in WI. So I would say there is a chance he could do well, especially at his peak. But Ashwin/Jadeja is stronger than most(or all) spin attacks Viv played, so not sure,

 

[Burgey]

How much would Viv average in India against Ashwin, Jadeja and Axar?

146.38

 

[Starfighter]

Speaking of myths, here's a genuine one: Pakistan's a spin bowling-friendly country.

 

[Godard]

146.38

Especially at his peak. That guy had such remarkable reflexes, he would dominate anyone

 

[shortpitched713]

Well, teams who use them on average score less, so maybe they do.

But maybe teams who would have had to consider using a nightwatchman would have scored less anyway, thus justifying their use. Hmm...

 

[subshakerz]

Viv would be the idea guy to launch a counter offensive, and then would get out cheaply half the time. Averages mid-30s to mid-40s.

 

[subshakerz]

Speaking of myths, here's a genuine one: Pakistan's a spin bowling-friendly country.

Or that India bats are better players of spin. Hasn't been true since 2012.

 

[Starfighter]

Or that India bats are better players of spin. Hasn't been true since 2012.

They're collectively still relatively better than SANE countries IMO. I think overall ability to play spin in friendly conditions is at a historic low point.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Can't be a myth if it's true mate.

More than half the "myths" in this thread are actually true

 

[Godard]

Viv would be the idea guy to launch a counter offensive, and then would get out cheaply half the time. Averages mid-30s.

Well a lot of the time(more than any batsmen who plays as aggressively as that and also if you look at his era), he managed to not get out cheaply. I would say roundabout 42-47.

 

[shortpitched713]

CW Myth: Somehow Viv Richards is one step behind the likes of Sobers, Lara, Tendy as a bat(by that I mean not slightly behind, but one tier below)

Cricket Myth(and also partly a CW Myth: Sobers is vastly ahead of all allrounders.Sobers is vastly ahead of all allrounders not named Imran Khan. Between these two, it is quite close, even tho I would marginally provide the nod to Sobers, cause
I believe they were equally good in their respective primary disciplines, and Sobers extraordinary fielding balances out Imran’s leadership(partly also due to the fact that while Sobers was a decent captain, Imran was a poor fielder). Where I think Sobers edges it, is in his bowling(compared to Imran’s batting) cause he had a lot of variety in his bowling and also cause he opened the bowling for quite some time(unlike Kallis was mostly used as a fifth bowler), while Imran never exactly batted in the top 4.

Sobers was certainly good enough as a bowler to be considered an ATG all-rounder. But to me, he is also the Best Batsman Besides Bradman (BBBB), and so it's pretty clear that overall he's more valuable at least than any other all-rounder (if not necessarily the most well rounded between skills), and clearly the second best cricketer in history (can't compare most cricketers to Grace, tbf).

 

[Godard]

Sobers was certainly good enough as a bowler to be considered an ATG all-rounder. But to me, he is also the Best Batsman Besides Bradman (BBBB), and so it's pretty clear that overall he's more valuable at least than any other all-rounder (if not necessarily the most well rounded between skills), and clearly the second best cricketer in history (can't compare most cricketers to Grace, tbf).

I know it’s debatable and I respect your opinion. But since consider I Sober in the same tier as, but marginally behind, Tendy, Viv and Hobbs(number 5 overall), for me it is very close between Sobers and Imran, although I will give Sobers the nod.

 

[Gob]

146.38

I do rate his off breaks tbh. Especially on those Indian wickets

 

[Coronis]

Global spin bowling is about to decline.

 

[subshakerz]

Global spin bowling is about to decline.

I'll take that hit.

 

[honestbharani]

146.38

and with the bat?