Cricketers who have had a lasting impact on how the game is played.

[El Nino]

Who was the first fielder to popularise throwing the ball in teh air when you're on the edge of the rope and about to go over, and then coming back in and catching it.

Adam Voges?

Seem to remember Chris Harris doing it ages ago.

 

[akilana]

I remember some Zimbabwean fielder doing it ages before

 

[Migara]

Gavin Larsen, Craig Matthews.. The diff. was that these guys were actually good. Venky definitely pioneered the no good slow medium bowler who always took the new ball, tbh..

I can't remember Prasad being "slow". At least he was bit quicker than Praveen Kumar. Larsen was much quicker than what you've perceived. He just cut his pace to make it difficult to time the ball. IIRC he has sent some spells with speed going in to mid 130s. Craig Matthews was on the rapid side of fast medium. Possibly high 130s when bowling in full low. He also cut his pace to change the pace.

Prasad probably had the slowest slow ball of all time

 

[weldone]

I remember one rumour doing rounds at the Eden Gardens. The story goes like this - once Venkatesh Prasad completed his run-up and action, the batsman asked him 'hey dude, you are here; but where's the ball?' Prasad replied 'it's coming, just behind me.'

I am sure this one has to be just a rumour, though

 

[honestbharani]

I remember one rumour doing rounds at the Eden Gardens. The story goes like this - once Venkatesh Prasad completed his run-up and action, the batsman asked him 'hey dude, you are here; but where's the ball?' Prasad replied 'it's coming, just behind me.'

I am sure this one has to be just a rumour, though

I still remember THAT ball to Tom Moody at Sharjah in that series of Sachin's desert storm.. He saw it come out of the hand, had an almighty backlift and was waitng, and waiting and waiting and finally it bounced and then he was ready with the stroke, when to his shock and horror, it simply got up and then down again and bounced ONE more time before crawling alongside his shoes through to thekeeper..

 

[nightprowler10]

Bart King FFS!

 

[shankar]

I remember one rumour doing rounds at the Eden Gardens. The story goes like this - once Venkatesh Prasad completed his run-up and action, the batsman asked him 'hey dude, you are here; but where's the ball?' Prasad replied 'it's coming, just behind me.'

I am sure this one has to be just a rumour, though

In those times, Kumble was our medium pacer and Prasad our leg-spinner...

 

[aussie]

not really.... warwick armstrong, don bradman, richie benaud, ian chappell and mark taylor all had similar philosophies. and they are just the australians.....

Really?. I dont recall reading & hearing anything about those past AUS or any other captain of the past having such a philosophy TBH. AFAIK the start of the 2000s era, was the period where scoring rates in tests increased & AUS (whether you credit S Waugh or not) was the team that started it.

No. Lets not kid ourselves by extending Steve Waugh with more credit than he deserves. Here is a man who was possibly slightly above average as a captain made to look like one of the greatest merely because of the fact that he presided as captain during a time when Australia had a monopoly on the legends going around in cricket. He scored at less an SR of less than 50 himself, and he had the likes of Hayden, Gilchrist, Slater and Ponting in his side. Quite frankly a chimpanzee would have overseen an aggressive batting unit during his time.

I was very specific in what i asked. Wasn't trying to give Waugh any more credit than he deserved, since its quite obvious anyone could have lead that AUS team during his tenure with similar success.

But as aformentioned the start of the 2000s era, was the period where scoring rates in tests increased & AUS (whether you credit S Waugh or not) was the team that started it.

 

[bagapath]

Really?. I dont recall reading & hearing anything about those past AUS or any other captain of the past having such a philosophy TBH. AFAIK the start of the 2000s era, was the period where scoring rates in tests increased & AUS (whether you credit S Waugh or not) was the team that started it.

correct. in a batsman dominated era, all teams scored fast. but in the earlier times australian teams significantly outscored the opponents under the skippers i have mentioned.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

you should find armstrong and taylor's teams scoring above 3 runs an over in eras when the runrates were lower. similarly braman and ian chappell's teams scored 2.8+ runs/ over. it is no surprise if you understand that all aggressive captains want to score runs fast in order to dismiss the opponents twice. crediting waugh with this strategy is like crediting some other captain for asking his bowlers to maintain a good line and length; there is nothing pioneering about this.

 

[aussie]

correct. in a batsman dominated era, all teams scored fast. but in the earlier times australian teams significantly outscored the opponents under the skippers i have mentioned.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Well i did highlight that in my opening post on the matter:

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/2315637-post137.html

Of my cant believe i missed this thread. Would anyone say Steve Waugh as a test captain?. The way he encouraged AUS to play super-agressive cricket, scoring 3.5 - 4 runs an over in a day in tests, was definately a benchmark most teams today usually wish to do (although flat pitches are average attacks played a part here too, but lets not go into this again).

AUS under Waugh started it. But then as bowling attacks got worse & pitches got flatter everyone did. Also credit must go to ODIs & T20 aiding in improving batsmen mindset to score quickly.

But scoring @ such a rate generally could not be done the few times teams came up againts quality attacks in testing conditons. I certainly dont remember too many teams scoring @ that sort of rate vs AUS.

you should find armstrong and taylor's teams scoring above 3 runs an over in eras when the runrates were lower. similarly braman and ian chappell's teams scored 2.8+ runs/ over. it is no surprise if you understand that all aggressive captains want to score runs fast in order to dismiss the opponents twice. crediting waugh with this strategy is like crediting some other captain for asking his bowlers to maintain a good line and length; there is nothing pioneering about this.

Yes this is well understood. But this is totally different from what im arguing here about Waugh starting the ball rolling in the 2000s era with super-aggressive cricket to score @ almost 4pro in tests (along with the banning of the nitch-watchman although this didn't last much after he retired haaa).

No time before in test history did any fairly aggressive captain ever contemplate the idea of scoring so quickly in tests.

 

[marc71178]

Except relatively speaking they did (as shown by others who you refuse to accept)

 

[aussie]

Reverse-Swing

Is it fair to say Sarfraz Nawaz first started it?. Based on my knowledge his famous spell @ MCG 78/79 was the first time in test history where the art of reverse swing was really seen sort of. Thus other great fast-bowlers have learnt & carried on since.

But i've always wondered was he REALLY the first great fast-bowler to do it?. Since looking at the bowlers like Lindwall, Trueman, Snow, Tyson, Procter, Hall for eg - they seemed to have the perfect actions to bowl reverse swing pre 78/79.

Thoughts??

 

[aussie]

Except relatively speaking they did (as shown by others who you refuse to accept)

Uh what?

 

[marc71178]

Have a look at some of bagapath's comments on the matter.

Relatively speaking Waugh's done nothing spectacular in terms of scoring rates.

 

[Teja.]

IMO, While Sarfaraz definitely popularized the art of reverse swing and taught it to its finest exponents, It is highly probable that reverse swing occurred in previous times by bowlers at various instances unintentionally/with the bowler using it at that instance not being able to replicate the effect later.

 

[smash84]

In those times, Kumble was our medium pacer and Prasad our leg-spinner...

LOL.......almost true

 

[Xuhaib]

Is it fair to say Sarfraz Nawaz first started it?. Based on my knowledge his famous spell @ MCG 78/79 was the first time in test history where the art of reverse swing was really seen sort of. Thus other great fast-bowlers have learnt & carried on since.

But i've always wondered was he REALLY the first great fast-bowler to do it?. Since looking at the bowlers like Lindwall, Trueman, Snow, Tyson, Procter, Hall for eg - they seemed to have the perfect actions to bowl reverse swing pre 78/79.

Thoughts??

Holding reckons he was reversing at the Oval in 76.

 

[weldone]

It looks likely that Snow, Procter and Holding at the least did reverse swing the ball on certain occasions. But the art of maintaining the ball well for the reverse swing to take effect ASAP was certainly something the Pakistanis did first.

 

[Manee]

Yes. Accidental reverse swing can and does often happen. This is especially true for the method that involves a straight seam (which, afaik, works at any speed) rather than a tilted seam (which only works at around 90mph).

 

[aussie]

Holding reckons he was reversing at the Oval in 76.

Wouldn't doubt it. I have seen the highlights of that test like 20 times & some of the cleaned bowled dismissals certained looked like reverse-swing was occuring.

It looks likely that Snow, Procter and Holding at the least did reverse swing the ball on certain occasions. But the art of maintaining the ball well for the reverse swing to take effect ASAP was certainly something the Pakistanis did first.

Yes, this is probably the best way to describe how thing unfolded.

Yes. Accidental reverse swing can and does often happen. This is especially true for the method that involves a straight seam (which, afaik, works at any speed) rather than a tilted seam (which only works at around 90mph).

Have a straight a fairly straight seam at any pace is key really. The ball wouldn't reverse if the release the seam is titled (maybe slightly) or scrambled.