Cribbage's Standardised Test Averages (UPDATED November 2018 - posts 753-755)

[srbhkshk]

What did Lol average?

lol

 

[OverratedSanity]

Didn't even read it tbh. Favourite, sure. But let's not claim that Ian Chappell and three others reckoning DK is the best ever is some objective measure of his quality. I mean, have we forgotten the various SK Warne rankings that, iirc, conveniently rates his mate Darren Berry as a better cricketer than Steve Waugh?

At least Siddle > Lillee comes from a flaw in the system that can be ironed out, not Cribb saying "I ****ing hate him".

Sure, cricketer ratings are better than a random bloke on an online forum. But they're still both subjective as ****.

Careful statistical analysis placed within proper context and with appropriate methodological caveats >>> boomer feels.

But yeah obviously Lillee was an awesome bowler who is far better than Peter Siddle. But jfc don't throw the baby out with the bathwater thanks to one weird result.

I agree with the gist of what youre saying but it kinda seems like you've gone to the other extreme and thrown the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to peer opinion by citing Warne and Darren Berry. CW has a hate boner for the eye test but it absolutely does matter. Watching games gives you that extra context for each performance that no statistical analysis, no matter how finely tuned will capture.

Subjectivity is good and useful, and that's what boomer feels provide.

 

[trundler]

I agree with the gist of what youre saying but it kinda seems like you've gone to the other extreme and thrown the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to peer opinion by citing Warne and Darren Berry. CW has a hate boner for the eye test but it absolutely does matter. Watching games gives you that extra context for each performance that no statistical analysis, no matter how finely tuned will capture.

Subjectivity is good and useful, and that's what boomer feels provide.

Don't let Morgie know where

 

[h_hurricane]

What did Lol average?

Lol (Lillee on Leave) would be a good substitute for a debilitated Lillee with a sticker on his shirt. AT is long sighted from that front.

 

[h_hurricane]

Less than he should have. Played 81% of his games at home.

Ashwin played 58% of his matches at home. Jadeja 68%. A look at Lillee's record says he played 63% of his matches at home(though you may considered his away ashes matches as well,which isn't way off the mark considering England was a home away from home for him). So Lillee was an early Ravi along with being a considerably inferior batsman.

 

[Cabinet96]

Ashwin played 58% of his matches at home. Jadeja 68%. A look at Lillee's record says he played 63% of his matches at home(though you may considered his away ashes matches as well,which isn't way off the mark considering England was a home away from home for him). So Lillee was an early Ravi along with being a considerably inferior batsman.

Yeah but Lillee's home matches were in Australia while Ashwin and Jadeja's were in India. So his record counts for double theirs. Or something.

 

[aussie tragic]

It's not about was Lillee the best, in this thread it's about does he deserve to be ranked the same as Flintoff (Lillee took 355 wkts in 70 Test, Flintoff 219 in 78 Tests)

For the love of God can someone please comment on Flintoff being ranked the same as Lillee...

 

[Bolo]

This thread is a thousand pages deep. It has probably been addressed before. But how do we statistically separate the percentage of home games for crazy home advantage for Sir vs the lessor bowlers like lillee? As clearly inferior as Lillee was to the greats like siddle, im not sure he deserves to be be penalized this badly.

 

[h_hurricane]

For the love of God can someone please comment on Flintoff being ranked the same as Lillee...

Average in Asia and WI clearly better than Lillee (by the way Dennis has no average in WI). Also turned up pretty well in SA as well where Lillee is untested. That leaves England and down under where Lillee was clearly better. So pretty much even between them.

 

[Burner]

For the love of God can someone please comment on Flintoff being ranked the same as Lillee...

Yeah, I think this is an anomaly. This is a great list but I think this ruins it a bit. Flintoff should at least be 40 places above Lillee. Man could bowl on anything.

 

[ankitj]

Flintoff is not the worst bowler ranked ahead of Lillee. Even Sobers is ahead of Lillee.

 

[Red]

A bowler like Lillee would always be loved. He was express fast, aggressive, beautiful action and a colourful character from a powerful cricketing nation back then. The best example of a fast bowler. That doesn’t make him the best though.

For christ's sake, no one (at least I am not) is saying he is the best of all time. But (fwiw) a **** load of good cricket judges have said that he was, or thereabouts.

 

[Red]

Yeah, I think this is an anomaly. This is a great list but I think this ruins it a bit. Flintoff should at least be 40 places above Lillee. Man could bowl on anything.

Average in Asia and WI clearly better than Lillee (by the way Dennis has no average in WI). Also turned up pretty well in SA as well where Lillee is untested. That leaves England and down under where Lillee was clearly better. So pretty much even between them.

Lillee vs Siddle holds true here as well. Players who perform across the globe are rated higher than mythical heroes who gain massive mileage based on peer reputation.

Not sure if this is still a serious cricket discussion, or whether it's just turned into a Lillee meme thread by ******s, but either way I'm out. Enjoy your ridiculous revisionist history.

 

[Coronis]

For the love of God can someone please comment on Flintoff being ranked the same as Lillee...

I mean Flintoff impacted his team winning unlike Lillee who was carried by Chappell and Marsh.

 

[Dan]

I agree with the gist of what youre saying but it kinda seems like you've gone to the other extreme and thrown the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to peer opinion by citing Warne and Darren Berry. CW has a hate boner for the eye test but it absolutely does matter. Watching games gives you that extra context for each performance that no statistical analysis, no matter how finely tuned will capture.

Subjectivity is good and useful, and that's what boomer feels provide.

It's absolutely useful in terms of greatness - no argument from me there (as long as it's taken in context and backed up by critical analysis). But it isn't at all useful in the context of standardised averages. I've completely misused the word 'quality' in that post - that's on me.

What I'm getting from the aussie_tragic line of posting is that as he thinks about who the greatest fast bowler ever is, he values things other than the inputs to Cribb's algorithm. That's absolutely good - I mean, I'm well and truly embedded in the Larwood-is-the-greatest camp. But that's an entirely different question to the one that Cribb's rankings are trying to answer.

 

[the big bambino]

For the love of God can someone please comment on Flintoff being ranked the same as Lillee...

Keep up now. The conversation has gone full loon. Apparently he's worse than Jadeja now because he bowled with a stress fracture in the West Indies one time.

 

[Athlai]

Dennis Mythee

 

[cnerd123]

D8nnis Lill3e

 

[Coronis]

Yeah, confirmed, and fixed.

Five years:
1. DG Bradman (Aus) - 116.39 (8 Mar 1929 - 18 Aug 1934) - 5.00 years
2. JB Hobbs (Eng) - 80.09 (11 Mar 1910 - 31 Dec 1920) - 5.20 years
3. WR Hammond (Eng) - 76.24 (23 Jun 1928 - 31 Mar 1933) - 5.04 years
4. S Chanderpaul (WI) - 73.80 (7 Jun 2007 - 21 Nov 2012) - 5.10 years
5. L Hutton (Eng) - 73.16 (27 Dec 1948 - 30 Mar 1954) - 5.01 years
6. SJ McCabe (Aus) - 70.95 (10 Feb 1933 - 24 Jun 1938) - 5.17 years
7. JH Kallis (SA) - 70.25 (15 Mar 2002 - 2 Jan 2008) - 5.04 years
8. KF Barrington (Eng) - 68.80 (17 Aug 1961 - 27 Jul 1967) - 5.14 years
9. AD Nourse (SA) - 68.59 (18 Feb 1939 - 21 Jun 1951) - 5.07 years
10. C Hill (Aus) - 68.54 (13 Dec 1897 - 11 Dec 1903) - 5.52 years
11. GS Sobers (WI) - 68.40 (13 Apr 1962 - 6 Dec 1968) - 5.06 years
12. AB de Villiers (SA) - 68.24 (3 Jan 2009 - 12 Feb 2014) - 5.03 years
13. IVA Richards (WI) - 67.62 (23 Jan 1976 - 30 Jan 1982) - 5.25 years
14. SR Tendulkar (Ind) - 67.60 (11 Feb 1993 - 25 Mar 1998) - 5.14 years
15. HM Amla (SA) - 67.35 (3 Jan 2010 - 2 Jan 2015) - 5.01 years
16. GA Headley (WI) - 67.34 (11 Jan 1930 - 21 Jan 1948) - 5.14 years
17. PBH May (Eng) - 66.87 (17 Dec 1954 - 6 Jan 1960) - 5.07 years
18. H Sutcliffe (Eng) - 66.84 (10 Jul 1926 - 2 Dec 1932) - 5.05 years
19. RN Harvey (Aus) - 65.92 (6 Feb 1948 - 9 Jul 1953) - 5.13 years
20. RT Ponting (Aus) - 65.78 (2 Aug 2001 - 1 Dec 2006) - 5.00 years
21. CL Walcott (WI) - 65.63 (8 Feb 1952 - 13 Mar 1958) - 5.04 years
22. WL Murdoch (Aus/Eng) - 65.58 (6 Sep 1880 - 12 Dec 1884) - 5.00 years
23. KC Sangakkara (SL) - 65.56 (25 May 2006 - 3 Nov 2011) - 5.07 years
24. AR Border (Aus) - 65.38 (26 Dec 1982 - 29 Jan 1988) - 5.12 years
25. Hanif Mohammad (Pak) - 65.37 (11 Oct 1956 - 31 May 1962) - 5.10 years
26. DCS Compton (Eng) - 64.79 (10 Jun 1938 - 12 Aug 1950) - 5.00 years
27. R Dravid (Ind) - 64.28 (10 Nov 2000 - 20 Sep 2005) - 5.13 years
28. SR Waugh (Aus) - 63.08 (3 Jun 1993 - 2 Jan 1999) - 5.07 years
29. ED Weekes (WI) - 62.55 (8 Feb 1952 - 4 Jul 1957) - 5.07 years
30. VS Hazare (Ind) - 62.36 (28 Nov 1947 - 21 Jan 1953) - 5.02 years

At least five years:
1. DG Bradman (Aus) - 116.39 (8 Mar 1929 - 18 Aug 1934) - 5.00 years
2. JB Hobbs (Eng) - 80.09 (11 Mar 1910 - 31 Dec 1920) - 5.20 years
3. WR Hammond (Eng) - 76.24 (23 Jun 1928 - 31 Mar 1933) - 5.04 years
4. S Chanderpaul (WI) - 73.80 (7 Jun 2007 - 21 Nov 2012) - 5.10 years
5. L Hutton (Eng) - 73.16 (27 Dec 1948 - 30 Mar 1954) - 5.01 years
6. JH Kallis (SA) - 72.30 (7 Sep 2001 - 16 Nov 2007) - 5.65 years
7. AD Nourse (SA) - 71.95 (24 Dec 1935 - 7 Jun 1951) - 7.34 years
8. H Sutcliffe (Eng) - 71.43 (19 Dec 1924 - 2 Dec 1932) - 6.62 years
9. KF Barrington (Eng) - 71.41 (17 Aug 1961 - 19 Jan 1968) - 5.58 years
10. SJ McCabe (Aus) - 70.95 (10 Feb 1933 - 24 Jun 1938) - 5.17 years
11. GS Sobers (WI) - 70.65 (4 Apr 1962 - 28 Mar 1968) - 5.11 years
12. AB de Villiers (SA) - 69.23 (17 Dec 2008 - 20 Feb 2014) - 5.28 years
13. C Hill (Aus) - 68.54 (13 Dec 1897 - 11 Dec 1903) - 5.52 years
14. SR Tendulkar (Ind) - 67.87 (2 Jan 1993 - 25 Mar 1998) - 5.39 years
15. HM Amla (SA) - 67.79 (3 Jan 2010 - 2 Jan 2015) - 5.01 years
16. IVA Richards (WI) - 67.62 (23 Jan 1976 - 30 Jan 1982) - 5.25 years
17. GA Headley (WI) - 67.51 (11 Jan 1930 - 21 Jan 1948) - 5.14 years
18. AR Border (Aus) - 66.90 (26 Dec 1982 - 7 Oct 1988) - 5.62 years
19. PBH May (Eng) - 66.87 (17 Dec 1954 - 6 Jan 1960) - 5.07 years
20. CL Walcott (WI) - 66.02 (24 Jun 1950 - 30 May 1957) - 5.45 years
21. RN Harvey (Aus) - 65.92 (6 Feb 1948 - 9 Jul 1953) - 5.13 years
22. RT Ponting (Aus) - 65.78 (2 Aug 2001 - 1 Dec 2006) - 5.00 years
23. WL Murdoch (Aus/Eng) - 65.58 (6 Sep 1880 - 12 Dec 1884) - 5.00 years
24. KC Sangakkara (SL) - 65.56 (25 May 2006 - 3 Nov 2011) - 5.07 years
25. Hanif Mohammad (Pak) - 65.37 (11 Oct 1956 - 31 May 1962) - 5.10 years
26. R Dravid (Ind) - 65.18 (10 Nov 2000 - 21 Jan 2006) - 5.54 years
27. DCS Compton (Eng) - 64.79 (10 Jun 1938 - 12 Aug 1950) - 5.00 years
28. SR Waugh (Aus) - 63.37 (3 Jun 1993 - 3 Apr 1999) - 5.35 years
29. ED Weekes (WI) - 63.37 (27 Mar 1948 - 17 Mar 1954) - 6.17 years
30. RG Pollock (SA) - 62.93 (6 Dec 1963 - 19 Feb 1970) - 5.53 years

Hopefully Smith will make it somewhere here in the next update!

 

[Teja.]

I wonder how someone would be rated within the captioned system if they had identical stats/circumstances as Ambrose except:

+1 in wpm
+2.5 in bowling average