Craig Cumming - an explanation?

[anzac]

mind you after the 2nd ODI Cumming would have had 7 innings against Pakistan to have shown something.......otherwise the selectors would be justified in looking elsewhere - I don't think McCullum got that many on the trot as opener when he started b4 being dropped down the order....

I still think that one of NZ's problems regarding ODI opening is their apparent philosophy of wanting to score quick runs in the 1st 15 overs....

IMO they should go back a step and look to have a solid if not spectacular start, where they have a top order that can preserve their wickets and set the foundation for the middle & lower orders later in the innings - not expose them within the 1st 15 overs!!!!!

By this I do not mean select Richardson as he is too slow, but but the same token not go for their 'pinch hitter' types....someone who can open and bat in a 'normal' fashion & score runs by rotating the strike & punishing the bad ball, and then be able to accelerate when required even if it means they loose their wicket for the good of the team when upping the tempo.....

NZ's batting 'strength' has traditionally been in their middle to lower order, they like to play their shots and consequently can be inconsistant if exposed too early.....

 

[anzac]

In contrast, Jesse Ryder has very fast hands and I think looks a great natural talent. I wouldn't expect him to score too heavily at domestic level though unless he gets on good tracks. We don't treat the '6 over point' types too well in NZ sadly.

hmmmm......

read somewhere re Marshall's exploits in Pakistan that there is a theory that his domestic performances are hampered by local pitches not suiting his style - could this be the same story for Ryder & the like?????

we may have some talent that is unable to bloom consistantly because of our pitches not having enough pace & bounce & recently too much movement as they try to improve them regarding this.....

perhaps another arguement to expand the 'A' series & to try & get a team to play in the Pura Cup etc on the better pitches etc.....

At this stage I doubt the Ryder would come into consideration for the RSA series or even the tour to England, however I'd be a bit disappointed if we did not see some new faces being tried out......

8D

 

[Tim]

I think the selectors took the Pakistan tour very lightly, they were willing to give some players a crack & now is the time that they need to step up here in New Zealand.

Cumming needs to play all 5 matches, there is no point dropping him after 3 matches because Chris Nevin scored 80 against Pakistan last week.

 

[Rich2001]

I still think that one of NZ's problems regarding ODI opening is their apparent philosophy of wanting to score quick runs in the 1st 15 overs....

IMO they should go back a step and look to have a solid if not spectacular start, where they have a top order that can preserve their wickets and set the foundation for the middle & lower orders later in the innings - not expose them within the 1st 15 overs!!!!!

By this I do not mean select Richardson as he is too slow, but but the same token not go for their 'pinch hitter' types....someone who can open and bat in a 'normal' fashion & score runs by rotating the strike & punishing the bad ball, and then be able to accelerate when required even if it means they loose their wicket for the good of the team when upping the tempo.....

NZ's batting 'strength' has traditionally been in their middle to lower order, they like to play their shots and consequently can be inconsistant if exposed too early.....

What about the young lad H Marshall, he might not be a out and out opener, but he has shown himself to be a good batsman in recent matches (inculding a 100) and batting at 3 he has been facing the new ball anyway :saint: - Also he hasn't appeared to been scoring that slowly either.

 

[Tim]

I don't really think Marshall is a #3 though...he likes to work the ball around & is perhaps better off during the 15-35 overs where you can work the singles.

However #4 & #5 are out of the question for now anyway with Styris & McMillan having reasonably tight-grips on those positions, although I think McMillan could move to #3 because he does like to play his shots.

I also read in the Sunday Star Times today that the reason why Ryder hasn't been playing for C.D has been because of disclipinary reasons...back in November when he was at the Academy he cost himself a place in the Pakistan tour because of several extremely late nights out & now earlier in December he apparently did the same thing while in camp with C.D.

Either his sudden rise to fame has gone to his head or as Mark Greatbatch said "he still has alot of growing up to do" now that he's in the eye of the public.

 

[Rich2001]

I don't really think Marshall is a #3 though...he likes to work the ball around & is perhaps better off during the 15-35 overs where you can work the singles.

However #4 & #5 are out of the question for now anyway with Styris & McMillan having reasonably tight-grips on those positions, although I think McMillan could move to #3 because he does like to play his shots.

Sorry Tim you have lost me.

I was replying in response to saying what about Marshall as a opener? as he has done pretty well in his games so far at number 3/4 where he is currently batting.

 

[Tim]

Oh ok, I should read better then

No, definately not Marshall as an opener...NZ have already gone down that path with Vincent trying to turn him into an opener at international level & to some extent it has failed badly.

 

[Rich2001]

Oh ok, I should read better then

No, definately not Marshall as an opener...NZ have already gone down that path with Vincent trying to turn him into an opener at international level & to some extent it has failed badly.

Oh right - Probley best to leave him where he is doing well then

 

[Ming]

At this stage I doubt the Ryder would come into consideration for the RSA series or even the tour to England, however I'd be a bit disappointed if we did not see some new faces being tried out......

No. Ryder was intially selected for the PAK TOUR but for disciplinary reasons he was dropped out for Craig Cumming.

Talented youngster Jesse Ryder is in danger of throwing away a promising cricket career following a series of off-field incidents.

Ryder, 19, has been censured by the Central Districts Cricket Association. Players' Association general manager Heath Mills confirmed his organisation was called in to help resolve the process.

"We were involved with a misconduct process involving Jesse," Mills said, adding that he was unable and unwilling to comment on any details of the matter.

However, the Sunday Star-Times has learnt CD management has been concerned about Ryder's excessive carousing for some time.

Apparently, matters came to a head during December's Chapple Cup, a one-day competition involving the minor associations in Central Districts, which also doubles as a Central Districts one-day trial.

Ryder, who hails from Masterton, was playing for Hawke's Bay.

A Central Districts source told the Sunday Star-Times Ryder had agreed to be back to the hotel Hawke's Bay had been staying at no later than 11.30pm, but returned hours later.

It is also understood Ryder had some disciplinary issues while playing for the New Zealand Academy at Lincoln in November which cost him a place on the recent one-day tour to Pakistan. It was reported by a newspaper that he and a team-mate, promising batsman Neil Broom, had been out on the town the night before a game, and Broom received two black eyes after an incident on Christchurch's "strip" area.

Ryder played two matches for Central Districts in the State Championship before being dropped "on form", despite scoring a 49 in his last innings.

Ryder burst on to the first-class scene last summer, scoring 365 runs in just six matches at an average of 60, including an unbeaten 114 against Canterbury.

Playing for the Academy side against an Australian Academy side in 2002, he hit 181.

He has had his talent likened to that of Martin Crowe at a similar age.

A source said half the problem was Ryder had too many people telling him how great he was and he'd started to believe it.

Mark Greatbatch, Central Districts coach and one of Ryder's biggest cheerleaders, admitted frustration in November when he said Ryder had some growing up to do. He also said that month "Jesse will be as good as he wants to be".

Greatbatch confirmed yesterday the Players Association had been involved. "But that's over and now he (Ryder) is working hard at getting back into the side. His attitude wasn't as good as it should have been but he's working hard down at the B competition.

"One of the problems was that there's been a lot of hype around Jesse and his second season. It's been an educational process for him."

He emphasised that Ryder had been dropped on form, not because of any incident.

He definitely had a chance to make Central Districts' one-day squad, to be named this week, he said.

Ryder is playing with Central Disticts A at Lincoln this week.

Papps has just scored his 3rd 100 this season, Ian Smith suggested he might be our answer for Test and ODI opening batting woes and I agree with him. Very classy player.

 

[Tim]

Having an ODI cap taken away from you for poor behaviour really would be a kick in the guts & I hope he realises how bad it looks.

 

[Ming]

Ryder and Papps in future in ODI's eh?

But for present, which out of those two would suit Fleming at the top the best?

 

[Tim]

Well I don't think Papps blazes runs, I think he's more like Fleming & likes to get his eye in before having a crack.

Ryder goes from ball one & may or may not come off. Recently NZ's starts have not been great..usually 20/1 after 8 overs which compared to other teams is snail like.

Maybe if we can bring in Ryder & he's successful, he can plunder the runs while Fleming can get his eye in & then cash in later..

 

[Ming]

But Fleming has had to play the 'aggressor' in recent times because of other failing around him.

Papps also averaged 38.50 in State Shield last year but at a slow SR of 60. If Bracewell was looking for a Richardson-like to partner Fleming, I would rather have Papps than Jones.

 

[meatspx]

I think we can agree that Craig Cumming doesn't have the natural ability to make a career for himself at international level.

NZ really needs to get it's top order sorted as the team line-up consits of 2 all rounders. Another batsman needs to cement himself as a regular in the ODI line-up; the only hope is that one of these youngsters is given an opportunity. Vincent, Sinclair and Nevin have all failed, and it seems Richardson/Jones will not be given another opportunity.

Another problem is that Marshall, Styris and Mcmillan are ideally suited at batting 5 - 6. Let's not kid ourselves, Marshall is not a no. 3 (as Vincent is not an opener), and Mcmillan only averages 26 - he's failed in the ODI game.

 

[Ming]

Just when we thought we had seen the last of LOU VINCENT in Tests and ODI's, he blazes a century on his first game back for Auckland! He's currently on 114* off a mere 105 balls at Hagley Oval. However Michael Papps will be pushing him hard, after scoring his 3rd century of the season for Canterbury.

 

[Kent]

Does anyone know when and where the NZ 'A' games are? I've looked on fixtures lists but I'm still having trouble finding them.

 

[Tim]

I think they start just before South Africa get here in mid Feb.
So really nobody in that 'A' squad will have much of a chance to make the ODI's but i'd say the 'A' openers will be keen as mustard to have a crack with the NZ/S.A tests to follow.

 

[Kent]

http://www.cricket.org/link_to_data...-A_IN_NZ/SL-A_IN_NZ_MAR-APR2004_SCHEDULE.html

Here we go (google ties my shoes for me again). Could there be some local games before the Lankan ones Tim, or are these the ones you had in mind?

March 2004
Fri 5 - Sun 7 Mar tbc, tbc
Wed 10 - Sun 14 Mar 1st Test v New Zealand A, tbc
Thu 18 - Mon 22 Mar 2nd Test v New Zealand A, Bert Sutcliffe Oval, Lincoln
Fri 26 - Tue 30 Mar 3rd Test v New Zealand A, tbc

April 2004
Fri 2 Apr 1st OD v New Zealand A, Bert Sutcliffe Oval, Lincoln
Sun 4 Apr 2nd OD v New Zealand A, Bert Sutcliffe Oval, Lincoln
Tue 6 Apr 3rd OD v New Zealand A, Bert Sutcliffe Oval, Lincoln

 

[Kent]

Seems like that series will be all about booking tickets to England.

 

[anzac]

I think the selectors took the Pakistan tour very lightly, they were willing to give some players a crack & now is the time that they need to step up here in New Zealand.

Cumming needs to play all 5 matches, there is no point dropping him after 3 matches because Chris Nevin scored 80 against Pakistan last week.

as I've said b4 IMO Marshall's form was the only saving grace from that series..........

but I disagree re Cumming playing all 5 and not because Nevin scored 80 (doesn't count anyway as neither Shoaib or Sami were playing, and Nevin has had enough chances despite what M Crowe may say)......

IMO if Cumming has not scored runs or shown an ability to see off the opening 15 overs after 7 consecutive matches then the selectors need to look elsewhere, and or change their strategy for the 1st 15 overs of batting.......