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County Championship reform

Frobishero

Cricket Spectator
Thinking about why the current Australian cricket team is far superior to England, I could think of three (kind of interlinked) main reasons;

1.Australia spends more per capita on spotting and developing young sporting talent and spends that money more efficiently.

2.In the population as a whole, there is quite a lot more interest in cricket in Australia than there is in England and Wales. As a result there is a higher proportion of children playing cricket from a young age (in a climate which is more suitable for playing a game involving a lot of standing around outside).

3.The first-class domestic competition in Australia is a lot more competitive than England and Wales'.

I don't want to talk directly about the first two reasons. The answer to the first would be simple in an ideal world, allocate more money to developing young cricketing talent and spend it more efficiently. The second could be addressed through a long term campaign to promote cricket in schools, etc.

The third reason is the most interesting and would require a bitter pill to correct it. I also think it's the most important. Australia has six first class teams, Queensland, NSW, Victoria, Tasmania, SA and WA. England and Wales have 18. The population of Australia is about 21 million, while the (cricket playing parts of the) UK is about 50 million or so. If England and Wales were to have the same ratio of population to first-class teams as Australia does, we would already need to cut three county teams. Of course this would not guarantee a big improvement of the competitiveness of county cricket. If England spent the same per capita on developing cricket and people had the same level of interest in cricket as they do in Australia, then we might expect this to impove the county game to roughly the same standard as the domestic game is Australia. However, these two conditions are highly unlikely to be ever met.
So what are we stuck with at the moment? Basically an overinflated, barely competitive championship at least half populated by players who would have absolutely no chance of getting a look in Australian domestic cricket.
Here's a solution I favour. Have nine teams, merging them geographically, perhaps along the following lines
Yorkshire and Durham
Lancashire and Derbyshire
Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire
Warwickshire and Northamptonshire
Worcestershire and Gloucestershire
Somerset and Glamorgan
Hampshire and Surrey
Middlesex and Essex
Kent and Sussex.

Play 16 games a season, 4 at each 'home' ground, i.e for Yorks/Dur 4 at Headingley 4 at Chester-le-street. As a Yorkshireman, this would be hard for me to accept at first, but I think I could get used to it. Let me know what you think.

Finally, consider these;
The NSW cricket team currently has amongst it's squad, Nathan Bracken, Stuart Clark, Michael Clarke, Brad Haddin, Phil Jaques, Simon Katich, Brett Lee and Stuart MacGill.
Western Australia have Adam Gilchrist, Brad Hogg, Michael Hussey, Justin Langer and Chris Rogers.
Queensland have Andy Bichel, Matthew Hayden, Mitchell Johnson, Michael Kasprowicz, Andrew Symonds and Shane Watson.

Those are just the players who have played fairly recently for Australia or are on the fringes of the squad.

Phil Jaques - Pura Cup average 47.53
CC average 59.3

Chris Rogers - Pura Cup 46.75
CC average 67.53

Darren Lehmann - Pura Cup 54.31
CC average 68.76

Andrew Symonds - Pura Cup 38.38
CC average 46.74

Why is it that players who have grown up playing in Australian conditions can come to England and dominate County Championship bowling attacks?

Off the top of my head, I think that most English counties have fewer than three players who have recently represented England at test level (i.e. Hick doesn't count) or who are on the fringes of the team (Stuart Broad counts).
 
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Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
There is not the remotest chance of Counties merging so any ideas along that line is non-starter..........even if it would be a good idea or help the England team.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If you get mediocre Australians coming over here and dominating, I'm worried; if you get good Australians coming over here and doing even better, I'm not quite so.

I don't want any reduction in the number of teams and never have; a reduction in the cricket, and a sane program, has been overdue for years (some would say decades, even). However, it's often been said that county level can only do so much, and I agree - it's grassroots level where Australia really, really lead the way, and not just in schools.

The Chance To Shine initiative is a good one, and has only just got going - we wait to see how it will come-off.

However, the damage done by the Sky deal could potentially mean any attempts at bigging-up the game are futile.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
An open mind should be kept on all things but this is probably a non-starter. The counties have their own interests at heart an whilst there are a number of benefits from such a system there are also cons (such as limited opportunities for English players due to Kolpaks and Eurpean passport holders)

Something Ive often thought about on similar lines is seperating the counties into 5 teams and each play 4 games in addition to a seperate County Championship.

Basically a regional comp that would sit between CC and Test cricket that would hopefully reduce the gap players face when they step up.

Basically a comprimise that keeps the traditional institution but adds a higher level of play.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Agree with LT and Goughy that it almost certainly has no chance of happening, regardless of how good an idea it might seem to be - but to be fair you argue your point well, for a first post that was impressively thoughtful.

Welcome to the boards. :)
 

Frobishero

Cricket Spectator
Thanks.
I suppose it is just a pipe dream really. And I don't know if I could see my beloved Yorkshire merge with someone else.....Something has to be done though. Even South Australia, who only won one game last year would probably thrash most of the county teams with ease.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
An open mind should be kept on all things but this is probably a non-starter. The counties have their own interests at heart an whilst there are a number of benefits from such a system there are also cons (such as limited opportunities for English players due to Kolpaks and Eurpean passport holders)

Something Ive often thought about on similar lines is seperating the counties into 5 teams and each play 4 games in addition to a seperate County Championship.

Basically a regional comp that would sit between CC and Test cricket that would hopefully reduce the gap players face when they step up.

Basically a comprimise that keeps the traditional institution but adds a higher level of play.
Your idea - it's like what Asutarlia do in RL isn't it?

Not a bad idea. How would ypu split them? :)
 

Frobishero

Cricket Spectator
I'd have

Somerset, Glamorgan, Worcester, Gloucester
Yorkshire, Durham and Notts
Lancs, Derby, Warwicks
Sussex, Kent, Surrey, Hants.
Leicestershire, Northants, Middlesex, Essex

Maybe. :huh:
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
As has already been said, the counties aren't going to vote themselves out of existance. However, using the counties for the oneday competitions, and amalgamations (maybe nominally city based or regions, whichever lends itself) for the four day game could work. My problem witht the current situation is that the best players aren't concentarted in Div 1 of the CC, so the standards still aren't that great.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Your idea - it's like what Asutarlia do in RL isn't it?

Not a bad idea. How would ypu split them? :)
Simple :ph34r:

N Yorks, S Yorks, W Yorks, E Yorks
Somerset, Glamorgan, Gloucester, Sussex,
Durham and Notts, Lancs, Derby,
Warwicks, Leicestershire, Northants, Worcester
Kent, Surrey, Hants, Middlesex, Essex
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
As has already been said, the counties aren't going to vote themselves out of existance. However, using the counties for the oneday competitions, and amalgamations (maybe nominally city based or regions, whichever lends itself) for the four day game could work. My problem witht the current situation is that the best players aren't concentarted in Div 1 of the CC, so the standards still aren't that great.
There is no way the Counties are going to allow themselves to be changed in any way for First Class Cricket.
 

Frobishero

Cricket Spectator
As has already been said, the counties aren't going to vote themselves out of existance. However, using the counties for the oneday competitions, and amalgamations (maybe nominally city based or regions, whichever lends itself) for the four day game could work. My problem witht the current situation is that the best players aren't concentarted in Div 1 of the CC, so the standards still aren't that great.
That's one of problems with it. Players that are on the fringe of selection but are playing in the second division like Broad and Bopara get to sharpen their skills against the likes of Glamorgan (sorry to any Glamorgan supporters, but I just picked on the bottom team). Players who get dropped or left out for whatever reason or are trying to fight their way back into the team (Tresco, Strauss, Simon Jones) but are stuck in the second division might have a bit of a shock if they do get recalled to the test team after playing in the lower tier of an uncompetitive first-class championship.
 

Frobishero

Cricket Spectator
As has already been said, the counties aren't going to vote themselves out of existance. However, using the counties for the oneday competitions, and amalgamations (maybe nominally city based or regions, whichever lends itself) for the four day game could work. My problem witht the current situation is that the best players aren't concentarted in Div 1 of the CC, so the standards still aren't that great.
That would be great, but I think the other way round might have more chance of being realised, i.e. one day by amalgamations, four days played by the counties. It would pose less of a 'threat to tradition'. Maybe even start with twenty20!
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
I think we're all agreed that the current situation isn't perhaps all it might be, so obviously something needs to be done. The big problem is what.

I do actually have a little sympathy with the ECB here, they are trying to at least promote the idea of counties fielding young English-qualified players, but sadly they're hamstrung by the european employment laws and the short-termism that promotion and relegation seems to encourage.

It would be great if we could reduce the number of first-class entities (or introduce a level between counties and tests), but sadly we're back to the old "turkeys not voting for Christmas" problem with the counties.

It's a head-scratcher all right...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I do actually have a little sympathy with the ECB here, they are trying to at least promote the idea of counties fielding young English-qualified players, but sadly they're hamstrung by the short-termism that promotion and relegation seems to encourage.
Erm... remind me, whose idea was 2 divisions?

Many merits as the thing had, that is a downside that Matthew Engel foresaw the first time the idea was mooted.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
It would be great if we could reduce the number of first-class entities (or introduce a level between counties and tests), but sadly we're back to the old "turkeys not voting for Christmas" problem with the counties.

It's a head-scratcher all right...
If groups were done something like this and they were seen as representative 'Test' trials with only English qualified players selected then it would get around the employment law issues.

Now if each Team played each other once then it could be fitted in to the scedule

If each county was given a financial reward from the ECB for each player selected then there is motivation to allow such a thing and promote English talent.

South
Sussex, Kent, Hamps, Somerset

North
York, Lancs, Durham

West
Worcs, Warwicks, Gloucs, Glamorgan

Central
Derby, Notts, Leics, Northants

Capital
Essex, Middlesex, Surrey

As each team would have only 4 games total it wouldnt get in the way of, or diminish the CC.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
If groups were done something like this and they were seen as representative 'Test' trials with only English qualified players selected then it would get around the employment law issues.

Now if each Team played each other once then it could be fitted in to the scedule

If each county was given a financial reward from the ECB for each player selected then there is motivation to allow such a thing and promote English talent.

South
Sussex, Kent, Hamps, Somerset

North
York, Lancs, Durham

West
Worcs, Warwicks, Gloucs, Glamorgan

Central
Derby, Notts, Leics, Northants

Capital
Essex, Middlesex, Surrey

As each team would have only 4 games total it wouldnt get in the way of, or diminish the CC.
You're preaching to the converted here, at least. I just doubt the counties would agree that it wouldn't get in the way of the CC. Even only 4 games is potentially 16 days where their players aren't available to them.

I'd personally dispense with one of the one-day tournaments (& why are they still 40 overs, btw? Surely they should ape ODIs? Not rocket science, is it? but I digress...) to make romm for something alone the lines of what you propose, but can't see the counties wearing it, sadly.
 

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