Christopher Cairns

[Kent]

I find it strange how adored Flintoff is in the UK, yet a lot of Brits seem to pour cold water on Jacob Oram.

He's not the best all-rounder in the world at the moment, but it was noticable how often the South African players and media singled out Oram for special praise.

A friend of mine chatted to Neil Manthorp up in the Vance stand at the Basin. When asked about Oram v. Flintoff this winter, he said that all diplomacy aside, Oram has a clear edge.

 

[luckyeddie]

I'm not sure the interview was misheard. I merely think, given when the report surfaced, that the reporter was Loof Lirpa.

Cheers,

Mike

Ah, Durham's Norwegian 20:20 specialist.

I've heard that Cairns is retiring to concentrate on his hobby - breeding rabbits.

He is a keen enthusiast of the Farilo Lop.

 

[badgerhair]

I find it strange how adored Flintoff is in the UK, yet a lot of Brits seem to pour cold water on Jacob Oram.

He's not the best all-rounder in the world at the moment, but it was noticable how often the South African players and media singled out Oram for special praise.

A friend of mine chatted to Neil Manthorp up in the Vance stand at the Basin. When asked about Oram v. Flintoff this winter, he said that all diplomacy aside, Oram has a clear edge.

Based on what Flintoff and Oram did against RSA, there isn't much doubt about that.

Flintoff's been playing like a Test cricketer since Vaughan took over as captain, and Oram since the beginning of the series against RSA. It will indeed be interesting to compare them next month.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[ReallyCrazy]

how old r you lucky eddie? :wow:

 

[luckyeddie]

how old r you lucky eddie? :wow:

51

 

[cbuts]

hope ur not going to claim flintoff is better than oram. lets compare the stats, oram batting average of 42.5 bowling 26.5. flintoff batting 26 bowling 45. cant wait for oram to get on the soft green ptches that will come out of enlgnad in may, he will **** you guys up

 

[Craig]

I have always tipped he will call it quits after England.

His FC career started there (with Nottingham I believe) and so I think it will be fitting for him to finish his FC career there (or Tests).

As long as he is preforming, he has a spot in the NZ for as long as he wants to play for.

 

[luckyeddie]

hope ur not going to claim flintoff is better than oram. lets compare the stats, oram batting average of 42.5 bowling 26.5. flintoff batting 26 bowling 45. cant wait for oram to get on the soft green ptches that will come out of enlgnad in may, he will **** you guys up

Who on earth would say that?

(although in the last year, Flintoff's averages look remarkably similar, now you come to mention it).:P

I'm surprised you think that the pitches in England will be soft and green, given the plums which were produced in the early part of the SA series last year.

Mind you, looking at Smith's 2 doubles, they won't make that mistake again.

I've heard a lot about Oram. If he's as good as some people say, then yes, New Zealand won't need anyone else because he will single-handedly destroy England with both bat and ball.

Keeps wicket to his own bowling too - and carries the drinks and drives the bus.

 

[Craig]

Havent you seen Oram play much Eddie?

 

[luckyeddie]

Havent you seen Oram play much Eddie?

Only during WC2003.

I was impressed with his bowling, thought his batting looked less than sound.

 

[Loony BoB]

Oram, Test Scores:

vs. WI in NZ, 02/03 - 0, DNB, 3, 26*
Average: 14.5
vs. SL in SL, 03 - 33, 19, 74, 16
Average: 35.5
vs. Ind in Ind, 03/04 - 5, 7
Average: 6
vs. Pak in NZ, 03/04 - 6, 23*, 97, 3
Average: 43
vs. SA in NZ, 03/04 - 119*, DNB, 90, DNB, 34, 40
Average: 94.33

Oram, ODI Averages (Batting / Bowling):

All matches: 17.71 / 29.7
Last 30 matches: 19.72 / 27.21
Last 10 matches: 27.00 / 25.78

He's consistently improving over his 60 ODI's and his 10 matches, particularly in recent times. That's what I like.

 

[marc71178]

His figures are impressive in Tests, but his bowling is somewhat improved by having the chance to play his debut series on those rather less-than-good wickets last December.

One Day's there's no comparison at all, Flintoff is far better.

 

[anzac]

despite having 60 odd ODIs I only considered Oram a bits & pieces type selection - the Claytons Cairns - until he made his Test debut...........

admittedly it was on seam friendly pitches but since then his form with ball & bat has steadily improved each series on all surface types.......

he looked scratchy & out of place in the Tests in India, but bounced back again in the TVS Cup, back on home turf v PAK & RSA his batting in both Tests & ODIs has been 2nd only to the likes of Fleming & Styris, and his bowling has consistantly put pressure on the batsmen since the WC.........

IMO it will be a further improved Oram that starts the England Tour.......as he has the monkey off his back re his Test batting credibility & Cairns' endorsement of him as a genuine class allrounder - now all he needs to do is believe it of himself & relax........

 

[cbuts]

oram has strugled in the odi's with coming in so late. why is mccullum batting at 6 and not oram? that better change

 

[Mingster]

oram has strugled in the odi's with coming in so late. why is mccullum batting at 6 and not oram? that better change

To break up the Styris, Astle, McMillan combo. Also because McCullum has the better technique against the second new ball but Oram or Cairns will get promoted at some stage for various reasons.

marc, in 2 or 3 years from now, will people say Oram is so good because he started his career on those pitches? no.

 

[marc71178]

marc, in 2 or 3 years from now, will people say Oram is so good because he started his career on those pitches? no.

Who's to say he'll even be in the team in 2 or 3 years time?

With so few matches nder his belt, those 2 games (out of 10) have an extremely disproportionate effect on his bowling average.

In 2 or 3 years time, assuming he remains in the team, they won't have such an effect and his average will be a far truer reflection of his bowling.

 

[Craig]

Who's to say he'll even be in the team in 2 or 3 years time?

With so few matches nder his belt, those 2 games (out of 10) have an extremely disproportionate effect on his bowling average.

In 2 or 3 years time, assuming he remains in the team, they won't have such an effect and his average will be a far truer reflection of his bowling.

In other words they (the pitches) have made him look better then what he possibily is?

 

[marc71178]

At the moment that is the suggestion - After those 2 games his average is in the mid-to-high 30's I believe, but those 2 make his career average about 24 or 25.

After another 10 games, if he continues at his current rate his average will have climbed to about 30.

It's a reverse Flintoff in effect - his bowling etc is improving, but the poor start to his career has lead to his figures looking poor.

 

[Kent]

Marc - Considering Oram has since toured SL and India, played on Hamilton's lunar surface as well as Eden Park, don't you think he's paid his dues in small sample terms?

In his 10 tests, I make it 2 on green-tops and 4 on featherbeds that had 900+ first innings runs scored on them.

On 'moderate' run-scoring surfaces, his figures are...

* 3/54 at Kandy
* 2/55, 2/49, 1/34, 1/21 and 1/23 this home summer.

He's yet to bowl a wicketless innings, and I think he might remain a 2/60 sort of bowler for the rest of his career. If he can reproduce the swing he used to clean bowl Gary Kirsten a bit more often, his current average of 26 may be about right.

On first impressions Pollock isn't one of the greatest of all-time, and in a similar way Oram's consistency and above-average bounce (he's 6'7'') can make him more of a factor than he looks. The key will be developing his bowling temperament, something I think he lacks after being a specialist batsman until he was 20-21.

 

[anzac]

To break up the Styris, Astle, McMillan combo. Also because McCullum has the better technique against the second new ball but Oram or Cairns will get promoted at some stage for various reasons.

the above combo will not get to play together in either form of the game unless there is a player dropped from the top 3..........Richardson / Papps / Fleming in Tests or Fleming / Papps / Marshall in ODIs..........or NZ lengthens it's batting by playing a 6th specialist..........

Styris currently bats at 4 which means Macca would be at 6, but this is where Braces has McCullum coming in..............or Cairns if he stays on for a bit longer...........