chris harris was underrated

[Moss]

Is it? I've read India were considered terrible at the format in the '70s

Didn't get a single win in the first two cups

I think those India sides still had very respectable bowling lineups at least on paper, across 75 and 79 would have included Bedi, Venkataraghavan and Kapil Dev among others. Not minnow-level bowling for sure.

 

[Starfighter]

I think those India sides still had very respectable bowling lineups at least on paper, across 75 and 79 would have included Bedi, Venkataraghavan and Kapil Dev among others. Not minnow-level bowling for sure.

Nah, they were rubbish. Maybe a little better in WCs, but still rubbish.

 

[Moss]

he reached number 2 in the world at one point. for 2 years he was super reliable against all opponents

Twose had an average record till around early 1999 (even went into exile a couple of times if I remember right), but had a breakout World Cup 1999 (pretty much carried NZ’s batting, averaged around 80 including a terrific matchwinning knock vs Aus), and from then on till 2001 was easily the most reliable batsman in the side. Absolute peak was the Africa tour in late 2000 - had a big hand in that ICC knockout trophy win and scored a century and a couple of other big scores against Pollock Donald and co. when NZ proceeded to get clean swept in SA after that. Had a decline in form during the home season which followed and then retired quietly without ever making a formal announcement I think. His was a major loss ahead of the 2003 World Cup.

Absolute favourite of mine. Not quite in the Bevan class obv but certainly my platonic ideal of a good middle order ODI bat - surpassed by Taylor since, but very much the example Latham should be looking to emulate as a no.5.

 

[Moss]

Nah, they were rubbish. Maybe a little better in WCs, but still rubbish.

Which is why I said “on paper”. Yeah, the stats are crap and India were struggling to figure out the format, but those aren’t names you would dismiss as minnow-level.

 

[Starfighter]

By 'on paper' you mean 'in tests'. They were minnow level in ODIs.

 

[Moss]

He has the third most not outs of any ODI batsman ever with 62(behind Dhoni and Bevan, two other finshers) but only produced a career average of 29, well below the level of the other 2 blokes. You'd think with that amount of 'assistance' from not outs he'd at least crack an average of 30.

Also, that famous 130 he got against us in the '96 QF was actually the only time he passed 80 in international cricket. His next best ODI score was 77* and in tests 71


Not criticising, I do like him and of course he took 200+ wickets while keeping things tight, but it's interesting

As to why Chris Harris acquired the reputation he did while ending with a career average of 29, despite that 130 in the Chepauk Quarterfinal my feeling was he was at his best forging rescue operations from no.7 or therebouts, certainly not while batting in the top 5, and the majority of these happened in a 6-year phase.

His best years and the ones in which he was almost indispensable to the side were from the start of 1997 (beginning of the Fleming/Rixon era) to the end of 2002 (India visited for a seam-and swing dominated series in which NZ preferred to stack the side with seamers who could bat to varying degrees, like Oram/Adams/Mills, and Harris stopped being a regular first XI player).
Scored 2746 in 141 matches @ 34.32 during this period, which was still very respectable for a no.7. I'd wager most of the not-outs came during this time. And, his average against Australia in this period was 64 (a lot of famous tri-series efforts in Oz there) - I think his fronting up against Aus ensured he went from cult figure to national hero.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Either side of that (1990-96 and 2003-04) he scored 1633 runs @23 games which obviously brings down the average quite a bit. Not saying his overall stats do him a disservice (his test record probably confirms that) or anything, but that six-year period is mainly what the Chris Harris phenomenon was all about.

 

[trundler]

I think now that keepers are expected to at least in the lower middle order and put runs on the board, there's no place for a novelty keep it tight 5th bowler who isn't really good enough to be a top order batsman.

 

[ankitj]

Mr_mister has slayed 2 great ODI batsmen today - Jones and Turner

 

[DriveClub]

Mr_mister has slayed 2 great ODI batsmen today - Jones and Turner

Who's next? My bet is on Zaheer abbas

 

[Flem274*]

harris is in my seconds mainly for his trolling, but it's close between he and oram. orams odi batting average was disappointing given his test match success, but once he got an extended opportunity above #8 when cairns retired he came into his own for a period either side of the 2007 wc before his eyes went and he retired from tests and slipped down the odi order again.

guptill
ryder
fleming
twose
styris
elliott
harris/oram
parore
mills
ferguson
chatfield

the only area we really have depth in is seamers. henry, morrison, allott etc miss out here when allott probably made the firsts 10 years ago. it took us a looooong time to figure out odi batting as a country and cairns is the only allrounder to be consistently good.

that middle order is ****ing clutch. styris always showed up to world cups, twose peaked in the 99 wc and elliott has had a great wc knockout and champions trophy. they could troll the firsts and win in a one off tbh.

 

[Flem274*]

i didn't know that info about turner, though i did also enjoy the counter post. i had heard the praise for his chips and placement, he sounds like a proto-kane. combined with his test record and he seems an automatic selection as first glance.

it's closer now but i think with an extended opportunity and the more serious approach to odis these days, the notorious professional would succeed. i trust him more than i trust guppy in a world cup, jamodi knocks against world class attacks be damned.

 

[mr_mister]

He did manage a double ton in a WC KO game however...

I just feel even that series Fuller posted against England doesn't really change much re Turner. He played England 16 times and averaged 32 against them with 2 fifties. Outside of those 3 performances Fuller posted it's a whole lot of nothing against them

I get the 171* being special just because it was the first big daddy score in the format but East Africa were considered a joke and is it any different to Guptill's 237*?

I think you're a little harsh on Guptill's WC ability based on his most recent performance being so crap. His WC record was considered good before it. And for the record Turner's third WC performance was woeful just like Guptill's

 

[trundler]

When in doubt pick the guy who can handle a moving ball

 

[SteveNZ]

As to why Chris Harris acquired the reputation he did while ending with a career average of 29, despite that 130 in the Chepauk Quarterfinal my feeling was he was at his best forging rescue operations from no.7 or therebouts, certainly not while batting in the top 5, and the majority of these happened in a 6-year phase.

His best years and the ones in which he was almost indispensable to the side were from the start of 1997 (beginning of the Fleming/Rixon era) to the end of 2002 (India visited for a seam-and swing dominated series in which NZ preferred to stack the side with seamers who could bat to varying degrees, like Oram/Adams/Mills, and Harris stopped being a regular first XI player).
Scored 2746 in 141 matches @ 34.32 during this period, which was still very respectable for a no.7. I'd wager most of the not-outs came during this time. And, his average against Australia in this period was 64 (a lot of famous tri-series efforts in Oz there) - I think his fronting up against Aus ensured he went from cult figure to national hero.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Either side of that (1990-96 and 2003-04) he scored 1633 runs @23 games which obviously brings down the average quite a bit. Not saying his overall stats do him a disservice (his test record probably confirms that) or anything, but that six-year period is mainly what the Chris Harris phenomenon was all about.

Great post, and exactly why looking at cricinfo and making a summary off career average is a fool's errand.

Chris Harris wasn't Michael Bevin but he was a great finisher around that time you're talking about. He was a very handy 5th bowler, especially if the pitch was slower, and he was an absolute demon at point. He was a triple threat. Plus he had that haircut, which only endeared him to us more. I remember a big fat guy on the Terraces circa 2000 with his head shaved into that bald through the middle and hair long on the sides style, with HARRY emblazoned across his bare back. Both fat guy and Harry were cult heroes on that day.

Unfortunately, the less said about his TV career the better.

 

[SteveNZ]

He did manage a double ton in a WC KO game however...

I just feel even that series Fuller posted against England doesn't really change much re Turner. He played England 16 times and averaged 32 against them with 2 fifties. Outside of those 3 performances Fuller posted it's a whole lot of nothing against them

I get the 171* being special just because it was the first big daddy score in the format but East Africa were considered a joke and is it any different to Guptill's 237*?

I think you're a little harsh on Guptill's WC ability based on his most recent performance being so crap. His WC record was considered good before it. And for the record Turner's third WC performance was woeful just like Guptill's

To be fair, Gup's World Cup record is pretty average. His 50+ scores are against Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, the double ton v WI, and v Sri Lanka chasing 130 last year. It ain't pretty reading around that. I don't like talking down the 237 because you've got to bat insanely well to do that, at home in a knockout game v a team that wasn't great but aren't minnows...but he's unfortunately not delivered against the best sides around those other filler knocks.

 

[SteveNZ]

And Glenn Turner shouldn't be near our all time ODI side. Nor probably the 2nd XI.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Possibly the 2nd greatest fielder of his own bowling too (behind Roger Harper)

Young Murali was pretty phenomenal too.

 

[ankitj]

When in doubt pick the guy who can handle a moving ball

That will lead to picking Pujara instead of Rohit which in 19 out of 20 games will be wrong choice today.

Unless you are talking about fictitious ATG XIs in which case meh.

 

[trundler]

There's no doubt between those 2 though

 

[lockton2skipper]

I dont think he was under rated . Saw him score 120 odd in 1989 at Scarborough in a under 19 test . Cairns got a duck , to my disgust.
Harris never really kicked on , ok odi but mediocre test player.