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Chris Broad

Brook's side

International Regular
Just looking at the list of head coaches, I can't really imagine Chris Broad getting on particularly with Micky Stewart (86-92) or Keith Fletcher (92-95), and with Ted Dexter Chairman of Selectors (89-93) this doesn't seem like a very flare orientated leadership era (hope that's not unfair).
 

Brook's side

International Regular
without getting his record out, I'm pretty sure he'd been dropped long before that rebel tour anyway, because I don't remember him playing against West Indies in 88, and I'm almost sure he didn't play in the Ashes in 99.
I don't think that it can be blamed on the rebel tour. I definitely remember a bit of an outcry over his non selection.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
i have no recollection of that.
i remember trescothick going home from the later tour.
the post was meant sincerely.
Honestly that's because you are an idiot!

Seriously how can you possibly say....Stuart Broad was an important part of an Ashes win in Australia and when get informed he played one test reply with "I have no recollection of that"......so why the **** are you making the claim in the first place?

This is totaly your MO.......talk on a subject with a pretence of authority like you know what you're on about, but the reality is you have no ****ing idea at all.

And that applies to your music thread too......get in the bin you absolutely ****ing melt.

Stuart Broad in the 10/11 Ashes.......oh my bejesus ffs. Reckon my dog knows more about that series she's had to listen to me regale her about it often enough.

****
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Like seriously.....of all the Ashes accomplishments Stuart Broad actually does have you chose to name a series he barely featured in??? I mean how stupid and ignorant to this subject are you?
 

Brook's side

International Regular
Honestly that's because you are an idiot!

Seriously how can you possibly say....Stuart Broad was an important part of an Ashes win in Australia and when get informed he played one test reply with "I have no recollection of that"......so why the **** are you making the claim in the first place?

This is totaly your MO.......talk on a subject with a pretence of authority like you know what you're on about, but the reality is you have no ****ing idea at all.

And that applies to your music thread too......get in the bin you absolutely ****ing melt.

Stuart Broad in the 10/11 Ashes.......oh my bejesus ffs. Reckon my dog knows more about that series she's had to listen to me regale her about it often enough.

****
This response is insane.
 

Brook's side

International Regular
Like seriously.....of all the Ashes accomplishments Stuart Broad actually does have you chose to name a series he barely featured in??? I mean how stupid and ignorant to this subject are you?
I named that series because it was the only away win in the last 40 years. As I say, I do not recall the injury. Although I don't specifically recall any contribution he made in the series, I referred to it on the basis that he was a key member of that team at that time. I also made reference to the devastating spells, including against Australia, and his exceptional record against Australia.
I respect his great achievements as a cricketer, and regard him as being in the conversation of England greats, which was the point in my comment.
If I failed to express my admiration of the player in a way which was becoming of him, I suggest that can be taken with some discretion and is not the massive deal that you make it out to be.
 

Brook's side

International Regular
I "haven't even started" getting vengeance with a person on an internet forum who forgot a cricketer was injured 13 years ago.
Total nutcase.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
without getting his record out, I'm pretty sure he'd been dropped long before that rebel tour anyway, because I don't remember him playing against West Indies in 88, and I'm almost sure he didn't play in the Ashes in 99.
I don't think that it can be blamed on the rebel tour. I definitely remember a bit of an outcry over his non selection.
Broad played in the first two tests of both of those series: 1988 against WI and 1989 against Australia. And was then dropped after the team had lost a game or two. 1988 was ridiculous as he'd made a 50 in the first test and opening against WI was one of the harder jobs going in those days, so a couple of failures were always likely.

There were a couple of reasons why he was dropped so promptly. Firstly, he didn't impress anyone with a couple of incidents during the winter of 1987/88. Refusing to go when given out in Karachi, and demolishing his stumps when dismissed in the one-off test in Australia. So the selectors were not going to show him much leeway. Ditto Gatting after the hotel room fiasco after the first WI test in 1988. The other reason was that the chairmen of selectors in those days (May in 1988 and Dexter in 1989) were obsessed with picking as many people as possible during a home test series: from memory, 28 in the summer of 1988 and 29 in 1989. That approach was not obviously successful, which is why I'm nearly always with those who err on the side of considency in their selections nowadays.
 

Coronis

International Coach
As I say, I do not recall the injury. Although I don't specifically recall any contribution he made in the series, I referred to it on the basis that he was a key member of that team at that time.
This is just so ****ing stupid.

Remember the pivotal roles Warne and Ponting played in winning the B/G trophy in India?
 

Brook's side

International Regular
Broad played in the first two tests of both of those series: 1988 against WI and 1989 against Australia. And was then dropped after the team had lost a game or two. 1988 was ridiculous as he'd made a 50 in the first test and opening against WI was one of the harder jobs going in those days, so a couple of failures were always likely.

There were a couple of reasons why he was dropped so promptly. Firstly, he didn't impress anyone with a couple of incidents during the winter of 1987/88. Refusing to go when given out in Karachi, and demolishing his stumps when dismissed in the one-off test in Australia. So the selectors were not going to show him much leeway. Ditto Gatting after the hotel room fiasco after the first WI test in 1988. The other reason was that the chairmen of selectors in those days (May in 1988 and Dexter in 1989) were obsessed with picking as many people as possible during a home test series: from memory, 28 in the summer of 1988 and 29 in 1989. That approach was not obviously successful, which is why I'm nearly always with those who err on the side of considency in their selections nowadays.
Cheers for the informative reply.
One of those series (I think West Indies) we had 4 captains? I think I remember Chris Cowdrey was given 1 cap as captain?? I think Emburey had a test. That was really ridiculous. I also remember the desperate chopping and changing in personnel. I remember Tim Curtis played one of those summers, when Broad and Tim Robinson had looked pretty good the season before.
Dexter - great player as he was - was also hopeless as CoS IIRC.
I remember those 2 incidents involving Mr Broad Sr, which was my original reference. I do wonder whether the team as a whole lost the plot in Pakistan though. I know some of Rana's decisions were terrible, but although at the time (I was a kid) I thought Gatting had been completely wronged, I do seem to remember watching the incident back a few years ago and thinking the umpire hadn't actually done too much wrong and Gatting was out of line. I'm scared to get anything factually wrong heaven forfend, but just saying I wonder whether it was a team mentality thing as much as anything.
Dropping someone after getting a 50 against that West Indies attack does indeed seem very strange indeed. I remember Robin Smith and Allan Lamb were absolute heroes that summer, albeit in a losing cause against a truly great side.
 

Brook's side

International Regular
Am I right in thinking that everyone was expecting Dexter to announce Gatting as captain, and he announced Gower?
I was thinking for some reason that Dexter and Gower didn't get on, but perhaps it was Illingworth and Gower?
Another lifetime!
I remember Geoff Marsh and Boon/Taylor? batting out a whole day (possibly Trent Bridge?) :laughing: That summer was just a nightmare. Worse than 88, because England were just never in the game.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Let's see what I can remember about 1988 and 1989. I'll try and pick up the various threads in one go. Yes, we did pick 4 captains against WI in 1988: Gatting, Emburey, Cowdrey and Gooch. There were actually 5 captains during the summer, as Pringle briefly took over when Gooch was injured in the middle of the 5th test. Curtis and Smith both played towards the end of that series. Smith really started to do well in the following summer, whereas Curtis' default approach of playing straight deliveries through mid-wicket meant he was clueless against Anderman and co. The WI series in 1988 was incredibly frustrating. Under Gatting, we'd become hard to beat and comfortably drew the first test, having lost the previous 10 against those opponents. The official line from the selectors that they believed him when he said he'd none nothing untoward in the team hotel, but they were going to strip him of the captaincy anyway. Thereafter, things went to pieces. The pity was that 0-4 was avoidable, even against WI, who were obviously still very good but not quite an invincible as had been the case a few years earlier. Had Gatting not been replaced, the series would probably have been much closer.

By 1989, yes I think you're right that Dexter originally selected Gatting to captain the team, but that was vetoed by the other selectors. Principally Ossie Wheatley, iirc. Gower and Dexter may well have been kindred spirits, but the latter possibly preferred Gatting's track record as captain. And yes, 1989 was abysmal. Obviously Aus had improved, but the side that Gatting was leading a year or two earlier would never have lost 0-4.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I remember those 2 incidents involving Mr Broad Sr, which was my original reference. I do wonder whether the team as a whole lost the plot in Pakistan though. I know some of Rana's decisions were terrible, but although at the time (I was a kid) I thought Gatting had been completely wronged, I do seem to remember watching the incident back a few years ago and thinking the umpire hadn't actually done too much wrong and Gatting was out of line. I'm scared to get anything factually wrong heaven forfend, but just saying I wonder whether it was a team mentality thing as much as anything.
The problems in the Pakistan series started in the first test, where Rana wasn't one of the umpires. The key character was a gentleman called Shakeel Khan. Versions differ about how many English batsmen were sawn off during that test, but it's generally reckoned to be in double figures. That's the one when Broad initially refused to go after being dismissed in the second innings. It would be fascinating to apply modern technology to the footage of those dismissals, but it's probably not possible. iirc Rana was brought in for the second test after England formally complained about Khan's performance in the first one. As you say, Rana doesn't seem to have many questionable decisions as Khan, and the incident that kicked things off was incredibly trivial; something to do with England moving a fielder while the bowler was running in, or something like that. The reaction of Gatting looks completely over-the-top, but things had been simmering since the first test. England were actually on top at that stage and looked like establishing a handy first innings lead. Initially, Rana was happy to go ahead with the next day's play as scheduled until the Pakistan captain Javed Miandad reminded him of his wider responsibilites given the state of the game, and thence we lost that day's play.

For England, losing 1-0 in Pakistan wasn't seen as a disgrace, but the knock-on effects in 1988 and 1989 were massive. We probably wouldn't have beaten WI in 1988, and maybe we wouldn't have beaten Aus in 1989. But the series would have looked very different to what transpired.
 

Brook's side

International Regular
Let's see what I can remember about 1988 and 1989. I'll try and pick up the various threads in one go. Yes, we did pick 4 captains against WI in 1988: Gatting, Emburey, Cowdrey and Gooch. There were actually 5 captains during the summer, as Pringle briefly took over when Gooch was injured in the middle of the 5th test. Curtis and Smith both played towards the end of that series. Smith really started to do well in the following summer, whereas Curtis' default approach of playing straight deliveries through mid-wicket meant he was clueless against Anderman and co. The WI series in 1988 was incredibly frustrating. Under Gatting, we'd become hard to beat and comfortably drew the first test, having lost the previous 10 against those opponents. The official line from the selectors that they believed him when he said he'd none nothing untoward in the team hotel, but they were going to strip him of the captaincy anyway. Thereafter, things went to pieces. The pity was that 0-4 was avoidable, even against WI, who were obviously still very good but not quite an invincible as had been the case a few years earlier. Had Gatting not been replaced, the series would probably have been much closer.

By 1989, yes I think you're right that Dexter originally selected Gatting to captain the team, but that was vetoed by the other selectors. Principally Ossie Wheatley, iirc. Gower and Dexter may well have been kindred spirits, but the latter possibly preferred Gatting's track record as captain. And yes, 1989 was abysmal. Obviously Aus had improved, but the side that Gatting was leading a year or two earlier would never have lost 0-4.
They said in 1989 it was the worst side ever to leave Australia!!

Dean Jones
Allan Border
Steve Waugh
Ian Healy
Terry Alderman (42 wickets)

Yes, it was 91 when Robin Smith had his great series, not 88. My bad. :thumbup1:
 
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