Choose two openers for post Packer era World XI

[Slifer]

Don't get the argument of Greenidge > Hayden. Gordan distinctly inferior to me.

Based on what average? If u knew ne thing about GG u wood know that he was one of those players who played well beyond his 'sell buy' date. More than ne other opening batsmen that i could think of, Matthew Hayden had it ez. at his peak he hardly came up against the likes of : Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, etc like for example Mike Atherton (who was quite unfortunate if u ask me).

 

[Top_Cat]

Hayden and Sunny for mine, if for nothign else it'd just look really funny to see them try to have a mid-wicket convo with their heads so far apart (in terms of ego and height).

Love Sehwag's attacking nature and stickability, love Gordon's machismo. But the above two were, for mine, a (slight) class above.

 

[JBH001]

Sehwag and Greenidge. What a sight that would be. Each trying to outdo the other. Riveting watching.

 

[bagapath]

Sehwag and Greenidge. What a sight that would be. Each trying to outdo the other. Riveting watching.

i've to agree. no opposition bowler would like to see them open together. though they may talk about counting on one loose stroke to get the breakthrough, they would just be depressed by the thought of bowling a new red cherry at these two and then get pounded in all directions.

 

[Top_Cat]

i've to agree. no opposition bowler would like to see them open together. though they may talk about counting on one loose stroke to get the breakthrough, they would just be depressed by the thought of bowling a new red cherry at these two and then get pounded in all directions.

That's true, the immediacy of the threat is intimidating. You'd know, as the bowler, no matter what, these guys would be trying to hit you hard. Like you said, you'd be playing for the loose stroke.

 

[bagapath]

quite surprised that the man who played the greatest knock ever by a test opener has not got even got a single vote.

 

[Top_Cat]

quite surprised that the man who played the greatest knock ever by a test opener has not got even got a single vote.

Gooch I assume? Yeah he's pretty under-rated generally.

 

[Ikki]

Based on what average? If u knew ne thing about GG u wood know that he was one of those players who played well beyond his 'sell buy' date. More than ne other opening batsmen that i could think of, Matthew Hayden had it ez. at his peak he hardly came up against the likes of : Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, etc like for example Mike Atherton (who was quite unfortunate if u ask me).

The difference in quality bowling between the 80s and 2000s is not large. In fact, considering most of the best bowlers of the time were in his own team really takes away from the difficulty. Hayden also played beyond expiry date.

 

[Beleg]

what criteria are you using in the original post? some of the players played more games?

 

[Uppercut]

i've to agree. no opposition bowler would like to see them open together. though they may talk about counting on one loose stroke to get the breakthrough, they would just be depressed by the thought of bowling a new red cherry at these two and then get pounded in all directions.

That's true, the immediacy of the threat is intimidating. You'd know, as the bowler, no matter what, these guys would be trying to hit you hard. Like you said, you'd be playing for the loose stroke.

While there's a lot of merit in it (quick scoring changes the momentum of the game and can really, really get to a lot of bowlers) I don't think many fast bowlers would rather bowl to Boycott or Dravid than Sehwag. At least Sehwag makes you feel like you have a chance. Well, until he's on 200.

 

[bagapath]

having said that no fast bowler of any era is going to enter the ground with a spring in his step knowing he will have to bowl to gavaskar and boycott either. they can grind you to death. SS has made a good choice of choosing them. most of us have gone for a combo of defence and aggression ( gavaskar with hayden or greenidge )

 

[The Sean]

62 votes - well done Bagapath! How much longer do we have to run with this one?

 

[bagapath]

this is done as far as i know. just waiting for one more day to see where the opening bowlers' poll is going (38 votes so far) and then open the spinner's poll

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Good to see the vastly underrated Greenidge getting so many votes. He and Gavaskar are almost the perfect combination. Statistically you can't look beyond Hayden but there will always be doubts about his ability if he'd had to bat on the green wickets in Australia and the dirt tracks in the West Indies that were prevalent during Greenidge's era.

 

[stephen]

Good to see the vastly underrated Greenidge getting so many votes. He and Gavaskar are almost the perfect combination. Statistically you can't look beyond Hayden but there will always be doubts about his ability if he'd had to bat on the green wickets in Australia and the dirt tracks in the West Indies that were prevalent during Greenidge's era.

You mean like Hayden's home ground, the Gabba?

 

[subshakerz]

The difference in quality bowling between the 80s and 2000s is not large. In fact, considering most of the best bowlers of the time were in his own team really takes away from the difficulty. Hayden also played beyond expiry date.

I'm sorry, but there was a substantial difference between pace bowling in the 80s and in the 2000s, very few would argue with that. Can you name one pace bowler in the current decade in the class of Marshall, Imran, or Hadlee that Hayden had to face? And it doesn't help that he generally struggled against the few quality express quicks he played against, such as Shoaib, the Ashes 2005 bowlers, and Steyn & co.

 

[stephen]

I'm sorry, but there was a substantial difference between pace bowling in the 80s and in the 2000s, very few would argue with that. Can you name one pace bowler in the current decade in the class of Marshall, Imran, or Hadlee that Hayden had to face? And it doesn't help that he generally struggled against the few quality express quicks he played against, such as Shoaib, the Ashes 2005 bowlers, and Steyn & co.

So there were two world class bowlers that Greenidge faced. The rest were in his team.

Hayden faced Akhtar and succeeded. He murdered Pollock on more than one occasion. They are of similar quality to the bowlers you listed.

I'm not saying that Greenidge wasn't a good bat - he was. But any points he gets from batting in a tougher era he loses for his lower batting average. He and Hayden are both quality openers and it is difficult to accurately compare them. However, you cannot say that Hayden faced a significantly worse attack than Greenidge, considering that two thirds of the world class bowlers from his era were in his team.

 

[Ikki]

I'm sorry, but there was a substantial difference between pace bowling in the 80s and in the 2000s, very few would argue with that. Can you name one pace bowler in the current decade in the class of Marshall, Imran, or Hadlee that Hayden had to face? And it doesn't help that he generally struggled against the few quality express quicks he played against, such as Shoaib, the Ashes 2005 bowlers, and Steyn & co.

Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar, Donald...?

And did the 80s have spinners in the class of Murali/Warne/Kumble/Saqlain? I think not.

We've already been through this 100 times and compared team for team. The difference between the attacks nowadays and then are not that much different.

In those days you had 1 great bowler surrounded by average bowlers.

Australia better this era
England better this era
India better this era
Sri Lanka better this era
South Africa didn't even exist then
Pakistan better then - although in the early 2000s it was still a very good attack
WIndies better then
New Zealand roughly even

And then there is this matter that Hayden is 6 points stronger in average. Hayden's career average rarely went under 40, Greenidge's rarely went above it.

Gordan was a great opener, no doubt and he had a wonderful partnership with Haynes. But I just don't buy that he had it that much harder to explain the difference in records.

 

[subshakerz]

Hayden faced Akhtar and succeeded. He murdered Pollock on more than one occasion. They are of similar quality to the bowlers you listed.

He only succeeded once against Shoaib in Sharjah when he was bowling in temperatures of 50C and had to resort to one-over spells. When he faced him in Australia in 2004, he was found wanting.

And both Pollock and Shoaib are hardly at the same level of the greats mentioed of the 80s.

 

[Ikki]

He only succeeded once against Shoaib in Sharjah when he was bowling in temperatures of 50C and had to resort to one-over spells. When he faced him in Australia in 2004, he was found wanting.

And both Pollock and Shoaib are hardly at the same level of the greats mentioed of the 80s.

Wow, that's a pretty warped way at turning around Hayden's amazing achievement in those tests in the UAE. When both teams struggled to post 100 runs in each Inning, Hayden scored a century. It was anything but hard going for the bowlers; they were knocking them down like flies.