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Changes required for the Indian odi side

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Okay, first of all, I never said he sucked. I said he was not all that good abroad and that still stands, seeing he was only good in one series in NZ, was okay generally in England and the West Indies. The other places, he was not all that good, just as I said. Secondly, I never talked about centuries, I talked about rescue innings and I am sure Yuvi has played more than Jadeja has. Juz remember Yuvi's 84 Vs Aus, 98 Vs Sri Lanka, the Natwest match, the 139 Vs Australia etc. The only point I was wrong about was the not outs and I have already accepted that. My problem with him is that, even without the match fixing cloud, he cannot replace the guys in the main side.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
honestbharani said:
Okay, first of all, I never said he sucked. I said he was not all that good abroad and that still stands, seeing he was only good in one series in NZ, was okay generally in England and the West Indies. The other places, he was not all that good, just as I said. Secondly, I never talked about centuries, I talked about rescue innings and I am sure Yuvi has played more than Jadeja has. Juz remember Yuvi's 84 Vs Aus, 98 Vs Sri Lanka, the Natwest match, the 139 Vs Australia etc. The only point I was wrong about was the not outs and I have already accepted that. My problem with him is that, even without the match fixing cloud, he cannot replace the guys in the main side.
Yuvraj and Kaif = totally inconsistent. One or two match saving innings dont make a career

He was good in other countries barring South Africa which is good enough.. you dont have to be a super man.

India would stand in good stead replacing some of the hyped stars for a utility one day player. Yuvraj and Kaif.. show me how consistent they are.. Regarding Jadeja's match winning innings so to say, just open some of the score cards of the matches from the series where he has averaged highly and you will know the crucial innings played by him..
 

nikhil1772

State Vice-Captain
I wonder why,why do people comapare AJ with Yuvi and Kaif? First of all going by the statistics (BTW great job bringing them up Pratyush) JAdeja is way better than both of the lads...Kaif doesn't bowl,Yuvi is not very good while JAdeja has immensely improved as a bowler...As for the fielding they are three of the best fielders India has produced.

But again why amn I doing this?I didn't want to compare Jadeja with Yuvi and Kaif in the first place...

My only question is if SA can play Gibbs why cant India play AJ?...after all he is proven not guilty whereas Gibbs had confessed his guilt.

With Ganguly and Dalmiya at the top of BCCPI (Board of control for cricket politics in India) Jadeja never had a chance...(Jadeja and Ganguly dont go along very well is a less-known fact)

But now Dalmiya is out...so should be Ganguly...then AJ can return...and the debate of whose place he'll take is useless...the place belongs to him

He should be given what was his...and well, if he doesn't perform well and good...drop him

For me,He was the heart of the Indian Cricket team and nobody ever took his place when he was done by injustice
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
I talked about rescue innings and I am sure Yuvi has played more than Jadeja has. Juz remember Yuvi's 84 Vs Aus, 98 Vs Sri Lanka, the Natwest match, the 139 Vs Australia etc.
Maybe one or two more, but that hardly matters. Look at how many times Yuvraj is dismissed for scores of under 30. That is why he has such a low average, and all along, he's far behind Jadeja in centuries.

Jadeja was at his best when he would first build a partnership slowly, then start running hard, then at the later stages, hit the big shots. One just needs to remember his assault on the Pakistani bowling in Bangalore, then against the South Africans in Mumbai (which I had seen from the North Stand) and one in South Africa, though it was against Zimbabwe. He could build innings-saving and often match-winning partnerships.

Moreover, in more than half the finals in which he has appeared, the team has won, and more finals when he has got off to a start.

In comparison, Yuvraj Singh has just tried to be too much of a flashy individual. If you watch him in action, you will notice he just tries to hit the ball without getting bat on it. As a result, the ball doesn't fall on the middle of the bat and he gets out caught very often.

His success in his debut match was just a one-off, as he struggled for a very long time, till that innings in SL. That, again, was a one-off, till his return to the team and return to form against Zimbabwe. Even in England, where he batted well, he took on the weaker elements of a very average attack- he has now struggled against a much stronger attack, with Flintoff and Harmison in good form. That 139 against AUS was on a flat pitch and whatever he did, was done better by the Australians.
My problem with him is that, even without the match fixing cloud, he cannot replace the guys in the main side.
He can replace Ganguly, who has done nothing exceptionally good these days to stay in the side (he has always been more of an entertainer), and is a liability on the field, which can always prove costly in ODI's. He can replace the highly inconsistent Yuvraj, who also struggles against spin- that should keep him out of any Indian batting lineup. He can be a capable reserve batsman for replacing anyone injured or out of form.

That said, Laxman is a class player and even the ODI side is incomplete without him. He has been playing active ODI cricket for just as long as the ODI regulars and has outperformed all of them- he has scored 6 centuries, while collectively, Yuvraj, Kaif, Badani and Mongia just have 5.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
India would stand in good stead replacing some of the hyped stars for a utility one day player. Yuvraj and Kaif.. show me how consistent they are.. Regarding Jadeja's match winning innings so to say, just open some of the score cards of the matches from the series where he has averaged highly and you will know the crucial innings played by him.
If Irfan Pathan could do what Jadeja and Robin Singh or at least Yuvraj did with the bat, that would solve some major problems. That said, Ramesh Powar actually does it, and showed a bit of what he can do in Pakistan. With Kumble struggling, Harbhajan often bowling wides and Karthik making a habit of ovverstepping, he should return to the ODI side.
JAdeja has immensely improved as a bowler...
If he keeps contributing a minimum of 6 overs each time, sharing with Sehwag, that would bring stability to the bowling attack and Sachin could take a break, but he's never done very well even when given an extended spell.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
But now Dalmiya is out...
Or is he still making decisions through the dummy? RS Mahendra, as Kapil Dev said, has done nothing for Haryana cricket and may turn out to be just that.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Dalmiya is still very much in Indian cricket. Had his camp lost the elections, it would have been another matter. Until some thing drastic happens, there is little chance of Ganguly replaced or Jadeja coming back to the Indian team till atleast the next BCCI elections a year later.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Pratyush said:
Centuries? How many did Bevan make batting at number 6-7. Must be more than Jadeja but as I said, Jadeja played so much lower down the order, he didnt have much chance to score big runs.

Of all his innings, only 9 at 7 and 43 at 6 - that's not playing much lower...
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
Of all his innings, only 9 at 7 and 43 at 6 - that's not playing much lower...
Always did his job wherever he batted. Mostly didnt get enough overs whichever position he batted which is proved by his high number of not outs..
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
You've changed your argument then!
Well when you brought the arguement of him being past his best right now, it was an irrelevent point to bring considering the arguement going on was who would be more of a utility player, Jadeja, Kaif or Yuvraj.

Regarding the arguement, I also mentioned the not outs in my arguement which you ignored from the quote I think.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Pratyush said:
Well when you brought the arguement of him being past his best right now, it was an irrelevent point to bring considering the arguement going on was who would be more of a utility player, Jadeja, Kaif or Yuvraj.
Erm, if his performance isn't at his best owing to age, I'd say that's a big factor.



Pratyush said:
Regarding the arguement, I also mentioned the not outs in my arguement which you ignored from the quote I think.
Your main argument appeared to be that he'd been batting too low, and I've shown that's false.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
marc71178 said:
Erm, if his performance isn't at his best owing to age, I'd say that's a big factor.
We were comparing how good Jadeja is vs Kaif and Yuvraj. Obviously when we consider for the current team, age will become a factor but considering the likes oh Lehmann have performed well at such an age, and India is having lack of consistent batsmen, if he is making the runs and has proven past talent, as is in the case of Jadeja, age becomes a small factor.





Your main argument appeared to be that he'd been batting too low, and I've shown that's false.
He missed atleast some big runs due to batting lower down the order. Others due to not getting enough chance as he didnt get much time as proved by his not outs..
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Although it cant be anyone's case, and it isnt mine, to say that Jadeja is as good,let alone better, than Bevan. I just said he is India's Bevan to show what kind of a player he is and his grasp of the grammer of the limited over game. In response, some ridiculous things have been said of Jadeja's figures.

I am comparing them below with Bevan just to make a point that Jadeja was good nothing more nothing less.

Average inflated by not outs :
Jadeja : Out of 179 innings he was not out 36 times.
If the not outs are not taken into account his average drops by 7.5 runs per innings.

Bevan : Out of 196 innings he was not out 67 times !!
On removing not outs his average drops by 18.3 runs per innings. !!

Not enough centuries :

Jadeja : 6 centuries in 179 innings.
Bevan : 6 centuries in 196 innings.
Thus Bevan took 3 innings more per century compared to Jadeja!
(BTW, Bevan had more 50's than Jadeja at 46. Jadeja has a respectable 36 of them in addition to the centuries)

Not enough Match winning performances

Its difficult to go into each innings and analyse. Here is one criteria I could use. Man of the Match Awards.

Jadeja : 10 MOM awards in 196 games. An award every 19.6 games played.
Bevan : 12 MOM awards. in 232 games. An award every 19.3 games played.

If these figures are not comparable, I dont know what is ?

People should think(and check) twice before just throwing stats around to support a preconcieved notion of theirs.
 
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nikhil1772

State Vice-Captain
marc71178 said:
And at his age I would suggest he's past that.
Certainly not...I think he's slightly younger than Ganguly...and again age doesn't matter really at this stage,many players still perform at their best at or until 34-35
 

nikhil1772

State Vice-Captain
marc71178 said:
The numbers don't support that.
Who said that improving as a bowler applies only at the international stage? Since AJ has come back to domestic circuit he is taking wickets consistently...something Yuvraj hasn't...then again Yuvi does not want to play domestic cricket which is required (He'd rather do commercials and mind you,acts pathetically in all of them)...on the other hand Jadeja should be given another chance at the international level which isn't happening...
 

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