Championless Trophy? - stop the bs and go

[Aamir Alauddin]

Auussies would definitely go. ACB does not have any other option. Asican cricket boards are united and they can dictate their terms to ICC as they did in past on many occasions. India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have shown their support by participating in Asia cup. S

 

[Aamir Alauddin]

Auussies would definitely go. ACB does not have any other option. Asican cricket boards are united and they can dictate their terms to ICC as they did in past on many occasions. India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have shown their support by participating in Asia cup. Squestion that ACB will not send the team. Now the debate should be on which players would refuse to go.........

 

[HoYoYo]

Auussies would definitely go. ACB does not have any other option. Asican cricket boards are united and they can dictate their terms to ICC as they did in past on many occasions. India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh have shown their support by participating in Asia cup. Squestion that ACB will not send the team. Now the debate should be on which players would refuse to go.........

Yes but remember that NZ, SA, Eng and Aussies have concern, if it was only australia than it wouldnt have been such a big problem. But since its these 4 teams then u never know what decision the ICC may take to be really honest with all of you. I was just reading a newspaper and some pakistani journalist think the situation is getting worse day by day. So maybe its not only the australian media but rather the pak journalist themselves think that.

 

[Aamir Alauddin]

Yes but remember that NZ, SA, Eng and Aussies have concern, if it was only australia than it wouldnt have been such a big problem. But since its these 4 teams then u never know what decision the ICC may take to be really honest with all of you. I was just reading a newspaper and some pakistani journalist think the situation is getting worse day by day. So maybe its not only the australian media but rather the pak journalist themselves think that.

Mostly these are the Australian who are criticising. As far as Pakistani media is concerned, never trust on them. I am a Pakistani, that's why know them very well. I have told you that ICC is a puppet in the hands of Asian teams and time will prove it once again.

 

[HoYoYo]

Mostly these are the Australian who are criticising. As far as Pakistani media is concerned, never trust on them. I am a Pakistani, that's why know them very well. I have told you that ICC is a puppet in the hands of Asian teams and time will prove it once again.

HOYOYO. ok u must know about these journalist. I personally want the tour to go ahead in pakistan. So i am with you.

 

[Aamir Alauddin]

HOYOYO. ok u must know about these journalist. I personally want the tour to go ahead in pakistan. So i am with you.

Thanks. I am also a cricket lover just like most of other Pakistanis. Recently Asia cup was staged in Pakistan. There is no problem in the main cities where cricket matches are conducted. Areas under trouble are the trible belta or northern areas of Pakistan. Being a Pakistani i know much more than the others as far as security issues are concerned. I am a cricket lover. I love Ponting, Pieterson, Shaun Marsh, Brett Lee, Vittori and all other stars as any Aussie, English or Kiwi does. I shall be the first person who would be against conducting this event inPakistan if some real security issue or threat is there to these players. Decisions must be made on realities not the propagandas.

 

[HoYoYo]

Thanks. I am also a cricket lover just like most of other Pakistanis. Recently Asia cup was staged in Pakistan. There is no problem in the main cities where cricket matches are conducted. Areas under trouble are the trible belta or northern areas of Pakistan. Being a Pakistani i know much more than the others as far as security issues are concerned. I am a cricket lover. I love Ponting, Pieterson, Shaun Marsh, Brett Lee, Vittori and all other stars as any Aussie, English or Kiwi does. I shall be the first person who would be against conducting this event inPakistan if some real security issue or threat is there to these players. Decisions must be made on realities not the propagandas.

I agree. Personally i read how much security would be given to the teams coming to pak, so dont see any problem with it. I have been to pakistan myself guess when? When there was an assassination attempt on pervez musharraf. Some people might call be mad. But i had planned a visit long before so i did go. I went to lahore, its an amazing city i think and after visiting my doubt about how media propagate a certain image of a country is far far different to what it actually is. Believe me i think the way people treated me was amazing. I didnt have any security either, so call me whatever but i loved the place.

 

[Aamir Alauddin]

I agree. Personally i read how much security would be given to the teams coming to pak, so dont see any problem with it. I have been to pakistan myself guess when? When there was an assassination attempt on pervez musharraf. Some people might call be mad. But i had planned a visit long before so i did go. I went to lahore, its an amazing city i think and after visiting my doubt about how media propagate a certain image of a country is far far different to what it actually is. Believe me i think the way people treated me was amazing. I didnt have any security either, so call me whatever but i loved the place.

Every country has its own culture. We people are taught to give our lives for our guests, not to kill them. You visited the Punjab provice. It center of Pakistan. The problem lies in northern areas alongwith the border of Afghanistan. Cricket lovers in Pakistan are the biggest security for the players and the teams. Has anybody ever heard any news of terrorism during any kind of sports event in Pakistan. The answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[FRAZ]

I think the auzzies shud go. they shud go to pakistan.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shud
I really didn't get you Sir/Man.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Every country has its own culture. We people are taught to give our lives for our guests, not to kill them. You visited the Punjab provice. It center of Pakistan. The problem lies in northern areas alongwith the border of Afghanistan. Cricket lovers in Pakistan are the biggest security for the players and the teams. Has anybody ever heard any news of terrorism during any kind of sports event in Pakistan. The answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Hmmm, well:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/story.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10513744

 

[Aamir Alauddin]

Hmmm, well:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/story.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10513744

What's the link between my post and the link you pasted in your post?

 

[HoYoYo]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shud
I really didn't get you Sir/Man.

Well seems like your the only one. By the way its ok if you cant get everyone.

 

[Burgey]

Another thing i dont understand is the fact that the teams wont be going to hang or shop around so WHAT ARE THEY SCARED ABOUT? They will remain in the stadium with hundreds of police guards and commandos. WOW. it is really beyond me what people like symonds have in their minds. Really feel for people like him. He should really follow a brave player like watson, dont even know why i am saying brave but in the context of symonds he does look more brave.

To put it bluntly,what they're probably afraid of is this (doing the best I can as an outsider):

Every week there are reports about bombs going off in Pakistan - every week. Whether they're right or not I don't know, but I read them and I dare say the players do too. When it happened in the lead up to the elections and the test series, there were people first of all saying "It's not in the same cities as the players will be". Then there were bombings in the same areas, and it was "It was in a military intallation only". Then it was a civilian area, and it was "Well, they'll have the same security as a head of state". Then Bhutto was blown up and it was "Well, players have never been targetted before". The margin kept getting narrower and narrower.

Tie that in with the fact that the nutbags who are exploding these things are the same people who have announced Australians will be targets because of their involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then tie it in with the fact that those who are allied to these nutbags have already attacked Bali and killed Australians with bombs before.

It's in that context that the players are making their decisions. Last year I nearly had to go to Lahore for a case, and the very thought of it scared the **** out of me - maybe I'm a coward (we can't all be as tough as you guys over there who act like they fought their way up to Poizieres at the Somme every day for all your lives), but there's no way I'd go there, as an Australian, not now with the way things are.

I'm not trying to offend you in saying that, but it's the way I feel about it. I don't blame the players for feeling that way either. It's all well to say they didn't come home in 05 from England, and it's a valid point, but the fact is there weren't bombs going off over there each week at that time, like there apparently are in Pakistan at the moment.

So don't criticise players if they don't want to go, and don't call them ignorant either, because they're getting informed advice from security people, and no doubt they're reading the reports as well (unless you're suggesting the reports are made up).

It's a tough one, it really is. I'd like to see the CT go ahead as well, with everyone there. But to say, as the thread title does, that the concerns are "BS" is wrong. There's crap going on there that people aren't comfortable with, abd people are dying all the time.

That's not BS. That's real.

 

[Dasa]

I'm not trying to offend you in saying that, but it's the way I feel about it.

It's in that context that the players are making their decisions. Last year I nearly had to go to Lahore for a case, and the very thought of it scared the **** out of me - maybe I'm a coward (we can't all be as tough as you guys over there who act like they fought their way up to Poizieres at the Somme every day for all your lives), but there's no way I'd go there, as an Australian, not now with the way things are.

???

...and getting facts right might be useful before ranting. Bhutto turned down the security arrangements offered to her as people in here have already said. It's also simply not good enough to say something like:

the nutbags who are exploding these things are the same people who have announced Australians will be targets because of their involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then tie it in with the fact that those who are allied to these nutbags have already attacked Bali and killed Australians with bombs before.

...the attacks in Bali most probably had next to nothing to do with what has been going on in parts of Pakistan, and it's the sort of conclusion one can see in the tabloids to just say all these 'nutbags' are the same, thus it's not safe anywhere in Pakistan.

Personally I reckon it's fine to criticise the players if they don't want to go, they most likely are ignorant and the 'security people' (as SS has implied, having knowledge of the industry himself) can hardly be relied upon to provide the full story.

 

[Burgey]

Indeed, but the players can only inform themselves as best they can by reference to the security experts they are provided with. How else do they make their decisions? Take the words of people like us posting on CW, that it's safe to go there?

And certainly Al Qaeda has publicly announced Australians will be targets - I know yould know that Dasa. Of course it's a consideration. Do you say the people who are exploding these devices in Pakistan aren't linked to either the Taliban or to Al Qaeda, at least some of the time?

I didn't say for one moment the Bali attacks were linked to Pakistan, and frankly mate you would well know I didn't. The point is that an Islamic extermist group with avowed links to Al Qaeda has killed Australians in Bali. It's not as though they haven't been targetted before. It's not that the attacks in Bali have anything to do with what's going on in Pakistan - it's unlikely given they happened in 2002; the point I was making is that the group responsible has itself said it's allied with Al Qaeda.

And I apologise for offending anyone, but when someone anonymously sits at a computer and calls or suggests players are cowards because they are worried about their security, well they leave themselves open to being criticised when they do so.

My post was in response to a question as to what the players are afraid of. I simply tried to think about it from their perspective, though having said all that it wouldn't surpise me if someone like Symonds misse the CT then hopped a plane to Bali for a 2 week break.

 

[four_or_six]

Absolutely agree with most of that. It's pretty hard for the players to decide I think, there's a lot for them to consider... especially those that are solid in the team. They must be getting a lot of conflicting advice.

Symonds has probably been a bit silly making these statements, and it didn't help that he said things before a few hours before the IPL auction whether he meant to or not.

And the younger players Watson, Hauritz, Harris etc who've said the things they've said... I think the enthusiasm is really refreshing and I respect them for being up-front about it, but maybe CA would have been best telling them not to say anything until the security reports are out. I doubt those players were trying to make a big statement, they were probably just answering a question honestly. The original quote from Watson said he'd go anywhere to play for his country, and yet I've seen articles since implying he'd ignore security concerns which I don't think was quite what he was saying.

I think it should be left to ECB/Cricket Australia etc to make a decision, it's very hard if the situation pits mates against mates and have some go and some stay behind. Not so much a problem if one or two skip it... but a problem if half the team sits out.

 

[chaminda_00]

The real issue is not that the players are worried about going to Pakistan. It is the accuracy of the information that is provided to them by the media and security personnal. Most of the stuff that are presented in the media in Australia and likley around other parts of world aren't very accurate.

Yeah in certain parts of Pakistan there is regular fighting and majority of Pakistan it isn't a regular occurance. Yeah it happens, but not very week or even once a month. For most of Pakistan things occur as often as the Japiur bombings or London bombings.

In the Australian media basically any muslim extremisted group is claimed to be part off or support the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Reality is that most have no connection and many are against these groups and have their own agenda.

If they really had any real concerns they should really get there facts straight about the situation and not really on poor media information or security information. Actually go and find out about what the real situation is before they make their stupid comments.

 

[WhatisRight]

To put it bluntly,what they're probably afraid of is this (doing the best I can as an outsider):

Every week there are reports about bombs going off in Pakistan - every week. Whether they're right or not I don't know, but I read them and I dare say the players do too. When it happened in the lead up to the elections and the test series, there were people first of all saying "It's not in the same cities as the players will be". Then there were bombings in the same areas, and it was "It was in a military intallation only". Then it was a civilian area, and it was "Well, they'll have the same security as a head of state". Then Bhutto was blown up and it was "Well, players have never been targetted before". The margin kept getting narrower and narrower.

It's in that context that the players are making their decisions. Last year I nearly had to go to Lahore for a case, and the very thought of it scared the **** out of me - maybe I'm a coward (we can't all be as tough as you guys over there who act like they fought their way up to Poizieres at the Somme every day for all your lives), but there's no way I'd go there, as an Australian, not now with the way things are.

I'm not trying to offend you in saying that, but it's the way I feel about it. I don't blame the players for feeling that way either. It's all well to say they didn't come home in 05 from England, and it's a valid point, but the fact is there weren't bombs going off over there each week at that time, like there apparently are in Pakistan at the moment.

So don't criticise players if they don't want to go, and don't call them ignorant either, because they're getting informed advice from security people, and no doubt they're reading the reports as well (unless you're suggesting the reports are made up).

I agree with you about how players are feeling with the current situation thats why there is such a fuss. But as far as the assassination goes, as dasa said you really need to get your facts right, but then again you will say thats what the australian media says so cant blame you or anyone but your media. I currently live in UK and whenever i hear the news or a certain documentry on how they portray pakistan as a country then i wouldnt wana go their myself becuase there is soo much exaggeration on the exact situation of the country, but when i went there i felt completely safe and laughed at how a media can change your minds soo quickly. So you cant really call me brave since i did get scared after listening to these news channels.

So now you must be thinking who should players really listen to, to get an idea of the exact situation, i think thats where the ICC comes in and thats exactly what they did, rather than listening to the PCB or any **** media trying to scare the hell out of players its better to send your own security delegation (CA security delegation), who can get an exact idea of the security arrangement and convince themselves and if they are satisfied then just say its fine if not then no. Thats as simple as that. As far as i remember the ICC did say there isnt any problem. So its better to listen to someone who has been there and has seen the situation.

 

[Burgey]

The real issue is not that the players are worried about going to Pakistan. It is the accuracy of the information that is provided to them by the media and security personnal. Most of the stuff that are presented in the media in Australia and likley around other parts of world aren't very accurate.

Yeah in certain parts of Pakistan there is regular fighting and majority of Pakistan it isn't a regular occurance. Yeah it happens, but not very week or even once a month. For most of Pakistan things occur as often as the Japiur bombings or London bombings.

In the Australian media basically any muslim extremisted group is claimed to be part off or support the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Reality is that most have no connection and many are against these groups and have their own agenda.

If they really had any real concerns they should really get there facts straight about the situation and not really on poor media information or security information. Actually go and find out about what the real situation is before they make their stupid comments.

That's spot on mate, the problem is though, your employer provides a security expert to do a recce on the place. I don't see how the players can be expected to do any more than rely on that expert. Whether his info is right based on what people who live in that part of the world know is a different thing, but I don't think you can realistically expect a 20-something year old young man to make his own inquiries in a way which will be better resourced than those of the board.
I don't know how breaking a country down into its regions necessarily works for someone going to that country as an outsider. If, say bombs went off in a short space of time in Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra, would someone overseas think to themselves, "Ok, I'm going to Melbourne so I'll be right?" Would that person's family think that? Or for that matter their employer? I wouldn't blame people for being reluctant to come here if that happened, no matter how safe I felt in my home town (mind you, you can never be too safe in Melbourne ).
I just think it's easy for us to consider it in the abstract. Would be much harder for the players.

 

[Burgey]

I agree with you about how players are feeling with the current situation thats why there is such a fuss. But as far as the assassination goes, as dasa said you really need to get your facts right, but then again you will say thats what the australian media says so cant blame you or anyone but your media. I currently live in UK and whenever i hear the news or a certain documentry on how they portray pakistan as a country then i wouldnt wana go their myself becuase there is soo much exaggeration on the exact situation of the country, but when i went there i felt completely safe and laughed at how a media can change your minds soo quickly. So you cant really call me brave since i did get scared after listening to these news channels.

So now you must be thinking who should players really listen to, to get an idea of the exact situation, i think thats where the ICC comes in and thats exactly what they did, rather than listening to the PCB or any **** media trying to scare the hell out of players its better to send your own security delegation (CA security delegation), who can get an exact idea of the security arrangement and convince themselves and if they are satisfied then just say its fine if not then no. Thats as simple as that. As far as i remember the ICC did say there isnt any problem. So its better to listen to someone who has been there and has seen the situation.

Good points too .
Just trying to think of it as a player - apart from (maybe) Ponting, has any member of the current side been there before? I imagine there'd be very few, so they have to get their info via media and via security.
T'would be good if the ICC stepped in, though I dunno if they'd ever have the stones to do so.