Challenge of pakistan

[yohanna]

so did he not reverse swing the ball then

That was not the point (he isn't as obsessed with RS as you are ). The point Akhter was trying to make was that the wickets were so lifeless that it was near impossible for any Pakistani bowler to bowl out even Bangladesh cricket team and it was only Akhter's pace that did the damage to Bang batsmen.Obviously Pak can't rely on just sheer pace against stronger oponent to bowl them out, therefore PCb did finally took notice of Akhter's objection and did something about the pitches.

 

[maxpower]

so then who's gonna be doing all the reverse swinging that miandad is talking about ?

personally i think media uses the term reverse swing way too much.

 

[Richard]

I seem to remember a comment from Khaled Mahmud after The Second Test, after Dav Whatmore criticised the batsmen for the second-innings collapse:
"but Shoaib bowled brilliantly. He bowled very fast and swung the ball even on that wicket".
I somehow doubt Khaled and his team were hallucinating the swing.
It seems plenty of Bangladeshi batsmen played abnormally well that series, so (unlike Harmison a couple of months later) it was not possible to use pace and bounce to scare batsmen into playing poor shots.
The whole point of swing, anyway, is that it takes the pitch out of the equation. Some pitches (sadly rather a lot these days) are so "dead" that you can't seam the ball, but swing, both conventional and reverse, means the wicket doesn't matter. Because it happens in the air, before the ball even hits the wicket.

 

[Sanz]

What about those people who made dvds and videos after the wc2003 game.i think if india win again they will make dvds and videos again.

This Comes from a guy whose country made countless songs and videos about one 'SHOT'

 

[thehellraiser]

yes and what a fantastic moment in history
arguably the gretates odi and perhaps the greatest odi innings
definately the most memorable shot in cricket
miandad the legend

what a game what a game

 

[yohanna]

so then who's gonna be doing all the reverse swinging that miandad is talking about ?

personally i think media uses the term reverse swing way too much.

You will never get it, will you?

Akhter ONCE (ONLY ONCE) said that he got Bang batsmen out by his sheer pace, his point was that the wickets were so lifeless that playing on it was nothing but useless.

Akhter NEVER said that he gets wickets only by sheer pace and never by reverse swing (as you have been imagining). His performance against Aus,NZ and SA had a lot to do with reverse swing.And its not just Miandad that was talking about reverse swing, Captain Ganguly has been talking about reverse swing too!

 

[Sanz]

yes and what a fantastic moment in history
arguably the gretates odi and perhaps the greatest odi innings
definately the most memorable shot in cricket
miandad the legend

what a game what a game

Yeah, please check on this board to know How many people actually know about that game and think of that game as the greatest ODI inning or game. That will be a hint for you. :P

 

[Choora]

Yeah, please check on this board to know How many people actually know about that game and think of that game as the greatest ODI inning or game. That will be a hint for you. :P

He said arguably!!

I do consider that ODI and that innings by Miandad as one of the best.

This Comes from a guy whose country made countless songs and videos about one 'SHOT'

That one shot deflated the morale of the Indian teams for so many years and it is said that only the present Indian team isn't under any psychological pressure when playing against Pak.

Before that '86 match, India used to beat Pak more often, after that '86 match Indians never had the spirits to beat them.

In the words of Ravi Shash, the '86 match was the worse match of his life and thta he can still hear the echoes of the last shot by Miandad!

A lot of credit is given to Imran for Pak team's dominance over India in late 80's and 90's, but i personally think Miandad was the one who played more important role for Pak in it.

 

[Sanz]

Choora - Pakistan was a better team in 80s and early 90s. I dont think Javed's SIX has anything to do with our performance in 80s and early 90s. Anyways we performed much better against them in 90s as compared to 70s & 80s. You are wrong about India beating Pakistan more often before 1986.

I would say we suffered simply because of meak and timid players like Shastri & Shrikant who would surrender in front of Imran & Wasim like a defeated soldier before a single ball was bowled.

Anyways - I was just pointing to the fact that Pakistan is no exception when it comes to making videos of its wins. I dont see any Pakistani taking out a video of 1st march 2003 but most of them have a video of Akhtar breaking Sachin's stump or Miandad hitting Sharma for SIX.

 

[Choora]

Choora - Pakistan was a better team in 80s and early 90s. I dont think Javed's SIX has anything to do with our performance in 80s and early 90s. Anyways we performed much better against them in 90s as compared to 70s & 80s. You are wrong about India beating Pakistan more often before 1986.

I would say we suffered simply because of meak and timid players like Shastri & Shrikant who would surrender in front of Imran & Wasim like a defeated soldier before a single ball was bowled.

Anyways - I was just pointing to the fact that Pakistan is no exception when it comes to making videos of its wins. I dont see any Pakistani taking out a video of 1st march 2003 but most of them have a video of Akhtar breaking Sachin's stump or Miandad hitting Sharma for SIX.

First of all i can't see anyone having problems with a video of a match, unless the guy is religious fanatic.

You are wong about Pak being better team before '86.Atleast as far as Shajah is concerned, India had a much better record against Pakistan in Shajah till the '86 match, they used to win regularly over Pak,but that match of '86 changed fortunes forever. I'm suprised at u ciuticism on Shashtri as he was one who usually stood out against Pakistan.He lead India to a Mini-world cup final win (in Aus) against Pak, and even before the 86 final in Shajah, ravi destoyed Iman's Pak with splendid piece of bowling.

Many ex-Indian cricketes gives Miandad credit for Pak teams dominace ove India.

 

[Sanz]

First of all i can't see anyone having problems with a video of a match, unless the guy is religious fanatic.

You clearly missed the following post of Imran :-

"no one makes videos of them winning in cricket,only india.Have australia or pakistan made videos of them winning."

You are wong about Pak being better team before '86.Atleast as far as Shajah is concerned, India had a much better record against Pakistan in Shajah till the '86 match, they used to win regularly over Pak,but that match of '86 changed fortunes forever. I'm suprised at u ciuticism on Shashtri as he was one who usually stood out against Pakistan.He lead India to a Mini-world cup final win (in Aus) against Pak, and even before the 86 final in Shajah, ravi destoyed Iman's Pak with splendid piece of bowling.

Many ex-Indian cricketes gives Miandad credit for Pak teams dominace ove India.

India had played 2-3 matches before the 1986 final, so it's hard to say that we were winning regularly at Sharjah. I never said Pakistan were a better team before 1986, I said India lost because Pakistan was a better team in late 80s and early 90s. Our loss didn't have much to do with Miandad's innings.

As for Ravi destroying Pakistan with his bowling - I dont think it ever took place. He may have helped India win the Mini world cup in Australia but his performance against Pakistan was nothing much to cheer about. Miandad was a great player and he did help his team win many matches against India because of his batting and his attitude. But to say that, India lost to Pakistan mainly because of his one performance in the Australasia cup is simply not true.

Those who believe in such stories are living in denial and do not want to accept that Pakistan had a better team than India. Their batting was as good as ours(if n ot better), they had better fast bowlers, better spinner and better wicketkeeper.

 

[harry674]

'Expect no mercy; show no mercy'



\The media hype was missing for the India-Pakistan series in 1982/83, but the overall environment was very similar. When we went out there, the people were very hospitable. The hostility between India and Pakistan is because of politicians; the normal Indians and Pakistanis are the same.

I was lucky to get a chance to make my debut in the fourth Test of the 1982/83 series. Before the toss, Madan Lal reported unfit and it was only then that I realized my time had come.

Imran Khan, at his peak, was bowling in-swingers that had the top-order batsmen in trouble at all times. Most of the batsmen, with the exception of Mohinder Amarnath, were playing him on the back foot.

When I came in to bat, India were already seven wickets down at 72. But I steeled myself to survive in the middle.

"Wrist toot jaye; Jo bhi ho jaye, Imran ko wicket nahi deni. He can hurt me but he cannot get me out," [Sandhu top-scored for India with 71 off 88 balls, including 9 fours and 2 sixes]

Mohinder was batting well at the other end and he was a great help. Every now and then he would come and speak a few encouraging words. He inspired me. He was always like that: very supportive of the younger players, making them comfortable and always helping whenever possible.

The wickets in Pakistan are flat and do not encourage bowlers. Added to that, we had to get the Pakistani batsmen out caught in the slips or bowled, because none of the close decisions went our way. The umpiring was very biased.

I was batting with Mohinder, when I saw that Sarfaraz Nawaz was over-stepping the crease by almost a foot. I brought this to the umpire's attention by drawing a line with my bat.

So the next time, Sarfaraz over stepped, the umpire called out to him and said, "Sarfi yaar ball todhi peeche se dal, tu no-ball dal raha hai [Sarfaraz, you are bowling no-balls, bowl from a little behind]."

"Tu apna kaam kar [You do your work]," said a clearly annoyed Sarfaraz within earshot.

To which the umpire retorted, "Main to kar raha hoon, par Sandhu dekh raha hai [I am doing my job, but Sandhu is watching]."

During those days Imran did a great job of keeping the team together. I saw the true picture of Pakistan cricket when Imran went off the field to get some treatment on his shins. There were four former captains in the side, Sarfaraz Nawaz, Abdul Qadir, Wasim Bari and Javed Miandad. As soon as Imran was off the field, all of them started trying to set the field. This went on for five minutes and so frustrated was the umpire that he loudly said, "Yaar, ek captain bano na bhai [Friends, let's have one captain]."

This is not the case today, as Inzamam-ul-Haq is a nice chap and a very good cricketer too.

If there is one regret I have, then it is that we could not be as aggressive as we should have been. That's because everyone was talking about it being a goodwill tour and how it is important not to ruffle feathers.

My advice to our cricketers who will be going to Pakistan later this month: Expect no mercy; show no mercy.

The Pakistanis will do anything to win. They will try all methods; by hook or by crook they will want to win. Woh kuch bhi kar sakte hai [they are capable of doing anything] because this series means a lot to them.

The matches will be interesting to watch and if India get on top, then we must not allow Pakistan even a sniff of a chance. Even more important: once on top, ignore Miandad. If they lose, he will get very tough on the team. He is a bad loser and will start mouthing a lot of stuff. Ignore him. The madder he gets, the better for us.

The Indian team should go and wish the man sitting next to Miandad, but not wish him. He was a great cricketer, but if we wish to win we must ignore him on and off the field.

For the Test series we will need Anil Kumble and Ajit Agarkar to get back into the team. If Ashish Nehra is back to full fitness he could be India's best bowler. The conditions there suit his style of bowling. The Pakistanis will try to tackle Zaheer Khan by playing safely against him. That means they will try and hit the other bowlers for runs and that is where they [the bowlers] might get wickets.

There has been talk about naming the series after Kapil Dev and Imran. But to me, personally, Kapil will always be the greater cricketer of the two. Simply because he never tampered with the ball; he always played fair.

Balwinder Singh Sandhu, a member of India's 1983 World Cup-winning team, spoke to Ashish Magotra.

 

[harry674]

Pictures of indians arriving...



http://specials.rediff.com/cricket/2004/mar/10pic1.htm

 

[harry674]

wow look at these figures

LBW - The Great Division



Following are details of LBW decisions executed during India - Pakistan Tests across the border. The runs scored by the batsmen are given in the brackets.

India (55):
P.H. Punjabi - lbw b Khan Mohammad - 3, Dhaka. 1954-55
C.V. Gadkari - lbw b Khan Mohammad - 2, Bahawalpur, 1954-55
P.H. Punjabi - lbw b Khan Mohammad - 12. Karachi, 1954-55
J.M. Patel - lbw b Khan Mohammad - 0, Karachi, 1954-55
Pankaj Roy - lbw b Maqsood Ahmed - 16. Karachi. 1954-55
S.M.H. Kirmani - lbw b Mudassar Nazar - 12. Lahore. 1978-79
Kapil Dev - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 15, Lahore, 1978-79
B.S. Bedi - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 4, Lahore. 1978-79
M. Amarnath - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 14, Karachi, 1978-79
Kapil Dev - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 59, Karachi, 1978-79
R.J. Shastri - lbw b Jalaluddin - 7, Lahore, 1982-83
Arun Lal - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 35, Karachi, 1982-83
M. Amarnath - lbw b Imran Khan - 5, Karachi, 1982-83
Maninder Singh - lbw b Abdul Qadir - 0, Karachi, 1982-83
Arun Lal - lbw b Abdul Qadir - 11, Karachi, 1982-83
M. Amarnath - lbw b Imran Khan -3, Karachi, 1982-83
Maninder Singh - lbw b Imran Khan - 0, Karachi, 1982-83
D.B. Vengsarkar - lbw b Imran Khan - 6, Faisalbad, 1982-83
Kapil Dev - lbw b Imran Khan - 41, Faisalabad, 1982-83
S.M.H. Kirmani - lbw b Imran Khan - 66, Faisalabad, 1982-83
D.B. Vengsarkar - lbw b Imran Khan - 1, Faisalabad, 1982-83
M. Amarnath - lbw b Imran Khan - 78, Faisalabad, 1982-83
Madan Lal - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 10, Faisalabad, 1982-83
Maninder Singh - lbw b Imran Khan - 2, Faisalabad, 1982-83
K. Srikkanth - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 2, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
G.R. Viswanath - lbw b Imran Khan - 0, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
D.R. Doshi - lbw b Imran Khan - 1, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
G.R. Viswanath - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 37, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
S.M.H. Kirmani - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 0, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
Maninder Singh - lbw b Sarfraz Nawaz - 4, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
S.M. Gavaskar - lbw b Imran Khan - 13, Lahore, 1982-83
Kapil Dev - lbw b Imran Khan -33, Karachi, 1982-83
R.J. Shastri - lbw b Azeem Hafeez - 0, Lahore, 1984-85
Kapil Dev - lbw b Azeem Hafeez - 3, Lahore, 1984-85
R.M.H. Binny - lbw b Mudassar Nazar - 0, Lahore, 1984-85
S.M. Gavaskar - lbw b Jalaluddin - 37, Lahore, 1984-85
R.J. Shastri - lbw b Salim Malik - 72, Lahore, 1984-85
S.M.H. Kirmani - lbw b Wasim Raja - 13, Lahore, 1984-85
K. Srikkanth - lbw b Wasim Akram - 4, Karachi, 1989-90
M. Azharuddin - lbw b Imran Khan - 35, Karachi, 1989-90
Arshad Ayub - lbw b Wasim Akram - 1, Karachi, 1989-90
K. Srikkanth - lbw b Wasim Akram - 31, Karachi, 1989-90
K. Srikkanth - lbw b Wasim Akram - 36, Faisalabad 1989-90
M. Azharuddin - lbw b Wasim Akram - 0, Faisalabad, 1989-90
S.R. Tendulkar - lbw b Imran Khan - 59, Faisalabad, 1989-90
Kapil Dev - lbw b Naved Anjum - 0, Faisalabad, 1989-90
K.S. More - lbw b Imran Khan - 4, Faisalabad, 1989-90
S.V. Manjrekar - lbw b Naved Anjum - 83, Faisalabad, 1989-90
N.S. Sidhu - lbw b Imran Khan -4, Lahore, 1989-90
K. Srikkanth - lbw b Wasim Akram - 10, Sialkot, 1989-90
S.V. Manjrekar - lbw b Waqar Younis - 72, Sialkot, 1989-90
S.R. Tendulkar - lbw b Wasim Akram - 35, Sialkot, 1989-90
S.V. Manjrekar - lbw b Imran Khan - 4, Sialkot. 1989-90
R.J. Shastri - lbw b Wasim Akram - 0, Sialkot, 1989-90
S.R. Tendulkar b Zakir Khan - 27, Sialkot, 1989-90

Pakistan (19):
Wazir Mohammad - lbw b M.H. Mankad - 55, Lahore, 1954-55
Alimuddin - lbw b Ghulam Ahmed - 4, Peshawar, 1954-55
Waqar Hassan - lbw b S.P. Gupte - 16, Peshawar, 1954-55
Miran Bux - lbw b S.P. Gupte - 0, Peshawar, 1954-55
Fazal Mahmood - lbw b J.M. Patel - 3, Karachi, 1954-55
Sarfraz Nawaz - lbw b B. Chandrashekar - 18, Faisalabad, 1978-79
Asif Iqbal - lbw b B. Chandrashekar - 1, Karachi, 1978-79
Zaheer Abbas - lbw b Kapil Dev - 186, Karachi, 1982-83
Sarfraz Nawaz - lbw b Kapil Dev - 13, Karachi, 1982 -83
Moshin Khan - lbw b B.S. Sandhu - 24, Hyderabad (P), 1982-83
Iqbal Qasim - lbw b Kapil Dev - 0, Lahore, 1982-83
Mohsin Khan - lbw b Kapil Dev - 91, Karachi, 1982-83
Mudassar Nazar - lbw b Kapil Dev -152, Karachi, 1982-83
Jalaluddin - lbw b R. Shastri - 2, Lahore, 1984-85
Shoaib Mohammad - lbw b Kapil Dev - 95, Karachi, 1989-90
Shoaib Mohammad - lbw b Kapil Dev - 24, Faisalabad, 1989-90
Javed Miandad - lbw b M. Prabhakar - 13, Faisalabad, 1989-90
Salim Malik - lbw b M. Prabhakar - 63, Faisalabad, 1989-90
Aameer Malik - lbw b M. Prabhakar - 9, Sialkot, 1989-90

Also Note:

There was only one LBW decision in the first ever Test at Dhaka, 1954-55.

Javed Miandad has been adjudged LBW only once - by England umpire at Faisalabad, 1989-90.

For every four LBW decisions, Indian batsmen have been adjudged thrice while Pakistani had just one verdict.

Out of 20 matches in all in Pakistan, the last four during 1989-90 season were supervised by England umpires.

Details of series wise break-up:
Season Mt Total LBW India Pakistan % for India % for Pak
1954-55 5 10 5 5 50.00 50.00
1978-79 3 7 5 2 71.43 28.57
1982-83 6 28 22 6 78.57 21.43
1984-85 2 7 6 1 85.71 14.29
1989-90 4 22 17 5 77.27 22.73
Total 20 74 55 19 74.32 25.68
Per Test LBW decisions: India - 2.75, Pakistan - 0.86

 

[Neil Pickup]

And how much does that have to do with Pakistani fast bowlers bowling full and straight, with India mainly relying on spinners, who aren't famed for LBWs..

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

[V Reddy]

And how much does that have to do with Pakistani fast bowlers bowling full and straight, with India mainly relying on spinners, who aren't famed for LBWs..

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

That's foolish Neil calling it lies. It is the same case/happens in most places eg- India,Aus, SL,etc,. would have been a more apt sentence. Guys like Mohinder Amarnath and Gundappa Vishwanath would be the last persons to lie on that type of things.

 

[Neil Pickup]

That's foolish Neil calling it lies. It is the same case/happens in most places eg- India,Aus, SL,etc,. would have been a more apt sentence. Guys like Mohinder Amarnath and Gundappa Vishwanath would be the last persons to lie on that type of things.

Where've I called it lies?

"Lies, damned lies and statistics" is a phrase used to point out that statistics can show anything you want them to show.

 

[V Reddy]

Where've I called it lies?

"Lies, damned lies and statistics" is a phrase used to point out that statistics can show anything you want them to show.

Sorry got confused :frog:

 

[maxpower]

You will never get it, will you?

Akhter ONCE (ONLY ONCE) said that he got Bang batsmen out by his sheer pace, his point was that the wickets were so lifeless that playing on it was nothing but useless.

Akhter NEVER said that he gets wickets only by sheer pace and never by reverse swing (as you have been imagining). His performance against Aus,NZ and SA had a lot to do with reverse swing.And its not just Miandad that was talking about reverse swing, Captain Ganguly has been talking about reverse swing too!

where is my reverse swing damn it !!!!:!(

 

[Anil]

Choora - Pakistan was a better team in 80s and early 90s. I dont think Javed's SIX has anything to do with our performance in 80s and early 90s. Anyways we performed much better against them in 90s as compared to 70s & 80s. You are wrong about India beating Pakistan more often before 1986.

Pakistan had a great team, true, but that Sharjah defeat was truly a huge psychological blow for the Indians for quite some time. It has been admitted by Indian players playing at that time.

I would say we suffered simply because of meak and timid players like Shastri & Shrikant who would surrender in front of Imran & Wasim like a defeated soldier before a single ball was bowled.

"Meek and timid" are not exactly the words to describe Shastri and Srikkanth. Shastri was one of the most fiesty and dependable players for India both in tests and one dayers in his time. Srikkanth, although not very dependable was still a cracker of a player whose low career average was basically because of his "go for broke" style of batting rather than any timidity.