Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[Flem274*]

Amir comes from a background where corruption appears to be the accepted norm. If you go against the grain, you better be prepared to taste the bitter disappointment of losing your spot to a much lesser player who will go along with it. Also, when an authority figure like your captain says " do this" you're not going to shrug it off.

But while I can see the pro-Amir argument, it does not exonerate him at all. If this was Imran Farhat, there would be dancing in the streets. To use the "He didn't know what he was doing...poor background....young...etc" argument is very insulting to all the other teenagers from poor backgrounds who try to live their lives well. Basically, you're saying they should get leniency over thirty year olds and/or people from disadvantaged backgrounds because their moral compass is too ******** to make correct decisions.

We all make mistakes at Amir's age. That does not mean we don't pay the price. He's done his crime, now he has to do his time. If we gave him a two year ban or something, we're not actually helping him. It could give him the idea he can get away with things others can't because he is teh awesome.

A decent ban, even a life one, will be so much better for him. There are no better lessons than the ones where you make a mistake and you lose the opportunity forever.

 

[zaremba]

Basically the central Pro-Aamir argument is that he was from a socially deprived section of society and suddenly thrust into the big bad world with greedy bookies out to get him.

To my mind the central argument is proportionality. What he did was serious, but not serious enough to warrant a life ban. Any criminal or disciplinary system which has no regard for proportionality is inherently unjust.

Next, the distinction between spot-fixing and match-fixing comes up. For me there's a very thick line that Aamir has crossed i.e. the unauthorized accepting of money for determining what he does on the cricket field and that, for me, is the key issue here.

i) It, from the video we've had access to, is extremely likely that the no-balls were just a 'demo', for the lack of a better word, by the bookie to show that his power extends to the cricket field.

ii) Accepting money for performing a minor act can also mean it's probable that the player would be ready in the future to accept more money to perform a bigger indiscretion.

I take your point but you're in extremely dangerous territory if you start sentencing people on the basis of offences which they might commit.

 

[fredfertang]

I take your point but you're in extremely dangerous territory if you start sentencing people on the basis of offences which they might commit.

'appen so Mr Z but it does mean you're eminently suitable to join the lay magistracy

 

[morgieb]

I think another factor regarding the Amir case is that the boy still doesn't seem to learn what he did was wrong. Don't get me wrong 5 years is a loooong time, but is it long enough?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

5 years is an appropriate sentence as passed by experts who have actually seen all the evidence. Have you seen all the evidence, and are you an expert.

 

[Scaly piscine]

5 years is an appropriate sentence as passed by experts who have actually seen all the evidence. Have you seen all the evidence, and are you an expert.

The evidence isn't important because the guilt isn't the issue. So It's only really the circumstances that are of importance, but apart from that people from the outside are in just as good a position to discuss a punishment as the so-called experts. The experts who bottled it and gave all three of the lying conniving cheats a minimum sentence, that includes a guy who would have still been banned at the time if it were any country with a competent cricket board (or locked up for bringing in drugs, take your pick) and a captain who was obviously heavily involved and more responsible for what happened.

 

[Furball]

What would Mohammad Asif and Salman Butt actually have to do to activate the 'suspended' portion of their bans?

 

[Burgey]

Just gets back to the fact India should be banned from world cricket til it cleans up the cancer that is it's illegal bookmaking industry.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

You can't blame India alone for that. There is a lot of illegal gambling in Pakistan as well as the Middle East. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was prevalent in most of the countries around the world.

 

[marc71178]

What would Mohammad Asif and Salman Butt actually have to do to activate the 'suspended' portion of their bans?

My guess is murder having seen how other misdemeanours have been treated.

 

[Burgey]

You can't blame India alone for that. There is a lot of illegal gambling in Pakistan as well as the Middle East. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was prevalent in most of the countries around the world.

Not in countries where it's legalised. That's the answer isn't it?
Legalise it and regulate it.

 

[Jono]

Just gets back to the fact India should be banned from world cricket til it cleans up the cancer that is it's illegal bookmaking industry.

Haven't seen this gem from you since India won the World Cup.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Would imagine it's only really prevalent in the SC and perhaps the WI?

 

[Burgey]

Haven't seen this gem from you since India won the World Cup.

Nah look, you won't stop it unless it's legalised. Legal betting here has virtually seen the death of SP bookies.

 

[Jono]

I'm not disagreeing with that point. I think banning Indian cricket until that occurs is ludicrous though.

 

[Burgey]

I'm not disagreeing with that point. I think banning Indian cricket until that occurs is ludicrous though.

Their players look like they need a rest tbf.

 

[Jono]

But who would play in the prestigious Champions League tournament then?

 

[Burgey]

But who would play in the prestigious Champions League tournament then?

Yes, I confess that's keeping me awake at night.

That's on soon isn't it?

 

[Jono]

Yeah, another good opportunity for the Indian players to injure themselves before the Australian tour.

Tbf though, won't mind if Harbhajan is actually injured. Need to stick a fork in him.

 

[Fusion]

Not in countries where it's legalised. That's the answer isn't it?
Legalise it and regulate it.

It's not that simple at all. Gambling is legal and regulated in the United States, but there is a HUGE illegal gambling market here. Some estimate that for every $100 bet on sports, $99 are wagered illegally. Even if you could eliminate the illegal industry, you can't eliminate human nature to make money by cutting corners. For example, one of the most famous legendary baseball player, Pete Rose, was suspended from baseball for life for betting (using legal channels) on his own team! As long as there is money to be made, people will break the rules. It has nothing to do with the country in question or the legality of gambling, it has everything to do with greed.