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Build-up to Indian Domestic Season 2008-09

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Er... no, probably not. Bit of a pointless argument this, but with each team potentially only playing a handful of games, it would not be unthinkable for all the internationals playing and none of them to feature in the top 5. A score of 150 followed by three starts would put you high up, just as taking a 6-fer would. Small samples are volatile, doesn't matter what 'quality' is involved.
We have someone like Badrinath, who'll get a 50 or a century every innings. That's top ten material. On the other hand, we'll see someone whose name we can't remember score big and make the top ten for a while, but drop out later on. That's the difference between a national prospect and a domestic extra. We'd expect the internationals or second internationals to have a fantastic tournament, a lot better than what you expect- we're seeing Badrinath gobble up bowling attacks now. Ultimately, what this tournament can do for Indian cricket should be thought about- with an ever-changing top ten chart, there's nothing the selectors can take out from here. For instance, will you see Shadab Jakati at the top throughout the series? You won't. On the other hand, Chawla will stay in the top ten for the whole event.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The issue is that with international players away, the talent is dangerously diluted. The fact is that it is not practical to maintain this number of teams; the number must be reduced - whether with franchises or zones is moot, something needs to be done. We are seeing horrible mismatches and the rare good player absolutely dominate.
yeah, but the Deodhar Trophy will provide a better picture with just 5 or 6 teams in the fray.

Anyways, I still think the best option is to have the IPL franchises compete in the Duleep and Deodhar Trophies from next year, minus the international players.. It will mean more air time for the franchises and whichever international players are free (both Indian and foreign) can play for these franchise sides as and when possible.

Even with no international players, having 8 teams of FC players would give a much better picture of players and competition than so many teams. And with the franchises involved, it won't just be random teams like the zonal ones but actual teams who play together anyways in the IPL T20 league.
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Another alternative will be to get in top foreign players in the various State teams. That will make the standard of competition a lot higher, and the domestic players will know where they stand and what it takes to get ahead.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
This tournament has had its fair share of problems. First, it was a repeat of the Antigua Pitch Fiasco, which resulted in the Mumbai/Gujarat match starting over in Rajkot, on an adjacent pitch. Now, it seems, Services players are getting a very raw deal in Una, HP. This has always been an itch with the Ranji One-dayers. They have too many matches played together in a zone, and too many matches are held in non-FC, non-international venues. You have matches played in lagoons and hillstations, subject to harsh weather, and then in cricket centres like this one in Rajkot which don't even have their act together.
 
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Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Shoaib Ahmed is having a superb tournament and took 7/15 today against Andhra. He now has 21 wickets in 5 games at 9.23 - good effort so far.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
This tournament has now become a yawn-fest. With all the international stars gone, it's lost its attraction value and what was a level playing field has now become a Mumbai/TN dominated event. Mumbai's domestic players are way ahead of many other teams and TN have two borderline international players, while teams like Baroda and UP feel the pinch of losing their internationals. Saurashtra, though, didn't make it, though they only missed one international. Karnataka didn't make it, while Shoaib's seven propelled Hyderabad to the knockouts. Three North and two East matches are left.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Third on the highest run-scorers list is Yashpal Singh. He's a batsman for Services, possibly India's weakest State/Enterprise team, and he piles on the runs relentlessly, match after match, season after season. The quality of opposition isn't much of an issue, as Services are by far the weakest in the North Zone and four teams in that zone are at least reasonably strong, while he's got a good record playing for North Zone. He's often left out of North Zone selections, particularly ODIs, because of more glamorous players from Delhi, Punjab and HP.

He's maintained an average of 51 in FC and over 48 (with a strike rate close to 89) in ODs, and though centuries are a lot less, he was (and may still be) surely worth a shout, with raw teenagers often getting a match ahead of him. Maybe he just played for the wrong team?
 

adharcric

International Coach
Certainly unlucky. He made the North Zone side on several occasions and even made contributions in a handful of Duleep Trophy matches, but that was it. Yashpal Singh deserved, at the very least, an opportunity for India A or one of the Challenger Trophy sides. That said, he could've transferred to a stronger team if he was good enough and smart about his career.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The problem may be the absence of a viable job outside of Services- he can't earn much only by playing domestic cricket. That's what was responsible for the likes of Harvinder Singh and TP Singh shifting from Punjab to Railways. Maybe he's good enough for a stronger team, as he has often made the North Zone XI, and scored well, but finding a job is tough. Services and Railways offer instant and secure jobs for cricketers, and since Railways is often a hard team to make, he may have chosen services. He may even be an active serviceman for a long time. It's very different from the likes of Vinit Indulkar and that bloke Shetty shifting to weak teams from Mumbai, or Rajesh Pawar shifting from Mumbai to Baroda, just to prove themselves.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Premier Cup begins tomorrow, with Delhi facing Railways and also TN facing Orissa at, guess where, Agartala. Neo Cricket (Purple) said they are covering the series, but we don't know which matches will be shown.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
It's nice and sunny here in Mumbai, where there's no cricket action. In Agartala (that's in Tripura, a North Eastern state of India), both pre-quarters of the Premier Cup have been delayed by, not surprisingly, bad weather.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Look at these options
  • Rajat Bhatia- Batting average 46, 9x100, 64 wickets in 55 matches, bowling average 25, 1x5wI
  • Abhishek Nayar- Batting Average 43, 3x100, 54 wickets in 23 matches, bowling average 27, 2x5wI
  • Laxmiratan Shukla- Batting Average 31, 3x100, 24x50, 106 wickets in 93 matches, average 37, 2x5
  • Sachin Rana- Batting Average 31, 3x100, 74 wickets in 29 matches, average 23, 4x5
Fine, this list is a little too long beyond three, but still, it's one to consider. All of them are top batsmen for their teams. Moreover, each of them is a valid stock seamer. They're not spectacular, but they're all useful, and should be a regular feature, at least away from India, but can be explored even as options in home Tests. Spin is India's main strength, so two spinners should be played everywhere, and one of these as third seamer will suffice. They're a lot better than India's part-time spin options.
 
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Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The Orissa/TN match has been called off due to bad outfield conditions. We wonder why the BCCI chose Agartala for all of the Premier Cup.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Look at these options
  • Rajat Bhatia- Batting average 46, 9x100, 64 wickets in 55 matches, bowling average 25, 1x5wI
  • Abhishek Nayar- Batting Average 43, 3x100, 54 wickets in 23 matches, bowling average 27, 2x5wI
  • Laxmiratan Shukla- Batting Average 31, 3x100, 24x50, 106 wickets in 93 matches, average 37, 2x5
  • Sachin Rana- Batting Average 31, 3x100, 74 wickets in 29 matches, average 23, 4x5
Fine, this list is a little too long beyond three, but still, it's one to consider. All of them are top batsmen for their teams. Moreover, each of them is a valid stock seamer. They're not spectacular, but they're all useful, and should be a regular feature, at least away from India, but can be explored even as options in home Tests. Spin is India's main strength, so two spinners should be played everywhere, and one of these as third seamer will suffice. They're a lot better than India's part-time spin options.
I have seen Nayar, Bhatia and Shukla bowl and none of them seems capable enough to bowl in international cricket.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
I have seen Nayar, Bhatia and Shukla bowl and none of them seems capable enough to bowl in international cricket.
As a third seamer and follow-up to Zaheer and Ishant, one of them should be in the team. Besides, none of Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Rohit and Raina are any good, when you have so many talented specialist spinners at hand. They're not outright quick, but as a stock seamer, any of them should make the XI.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Deodhar news in-
Tiwary to lead East Zone in Deodhar Trophy

Cricinfo staff

February 27, 2009


Manoj Tiwary, the Bengal batsman, has been named captain of the East Zone side for next month's Deodhar Trophy with Saurabh Tiwary, the 19-year-old Jharkhand batsman, vice-captain. Laxmi Ratan Shukla, the former India allrounder, found a place in the 15-man squad but Shiv Sundar Das, who captained East in the Duleep Trophy, was left out.

Tiwary doesn't lead Bengal in the Ranji Trophy but he didn't think captaincy would adversely affect his batting. "I've always enjoyed captaincy. I have led Under-19 sides and won't be under any pressure," he told Kolkata-based daily the Telegraph. "In fact, if you check the statistics you will find that I have performed better whenever I have been the captain of the side." The only captaincy experience Tiwary has with senior sides is when he led Bengal in the 2007 inter-state Twenty20 tournament.

"I have been playing in the zonal side for the past few years and have observed a few things that I think should be addressed properly to enhance the team's performance," he said. "There are some aspects in which the East Zone sides have been found wanting in the past."

The squad will be coached by former Indian wicketkeeper Sameer Dighe, and have a conditioning camp in Cuttack from March 11.

East are in Group B of the Deodhar Trophy, which is scheduled to start on March 13, and are clubbed with North and Central. After a round of league matches, the teams topping the two groups will face off in the final on March 18.

Squad: Manoj Tiwary (capt), Saurabh Tiwary (vice-capt), Laxmi Ratan Shukla, Wriddhiman Saha (wk), Ranadeb Bose, Ashok Dinda, Natraj Behara, Halhadar Das, Rakesh Mohanty, Preetamjit Das, Ishank Jaggi, Deepak Sharma, Dhiraj Goswami, Tushar Saha, and Rana Dutta
Like most East Zone teams, it's quite weak, man for man, and together. This is mostly comprised of unknown names, except Manoj, Saurabh, Shukla, Saha, Bose and Dinda.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
That other match (not covered by Neo) finished, and Delhi won by two wickets in a run-fest at the ground in Agartala with a decent outfield. Big scores were made by Bangar, Cheluvaraj and the others also made chunky, fast contributions. When Delhi set out to chase, they lost wickets all over, except for Chopra (who again had an astonishingly high strike-rate, given his reputation as a strokeless ODI misfit) and Kohli (keeping up good form) scoring centuries, while the rest scored in bits and pieces. It was a terrible match for the all-rounders, with all of Bhatia, Bangar and Sanyal with no wickets and few runs. We saw part-timers get more than their fair share of overs.
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
Arjun, of those listed above, I have only seen Bhatia bowl but I would wholeheartedly agree with Manee. He'd be little or no use at international level, bowling mid-70s would just end up in a torrent of boundaries. Multiple-skilled cricketers are only ever good when one of their skills is at or very close to international standards; Bhatia would get nowhere near the side in either discipline. And IMO it would be dangerous to present them as better options than Sehwag/Yuvraj bowling 10 overs, since you're judging one set of players purely on their performance in domestic cricket and the others on performances against the world's best.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Arjun, of those listed above, I have only seen Bhatia bowl but I would wholeheartedly agree with Manee. He'd be little or no use at international level, bowling mid-70s would just end up in a torrent of boundaries. Multiple-skilled cricketers are only ever good when one of their skills is at or very close to international standards; Bhatia would get nowhere near the side in either discipline. And IMO it would be dangerous to present them as better options than Sehwag/Yuvraj bowling 10 overs, since you're judging one set of players purely on their performance in domestic cricket and the others on performances against the world's best.
I didn't elaborate on this last time, so I'll tell you the whole thing.

To begin with, they already have Irfan Pathan, who's genuinely good with the ball. Unfortunately, he's gone off the boil again, for some reason, despite coming off splendid domestic form. However, with no replacement in sight, the Indian team is a lot weaker, and are forced to go back to him all the time. I was suggesting one of these as a short-term option until they get Irfan back in wicket-taking form. Yes, Irfan is different from any of this bunch, but the objective is still the same. This is a selection to get in two Indian spinners in all conditions, in Tests and limited-overs matches.

They only bowl in the mid-70s, but they do a good job of it. We've seen bowlers from most teams, including India, who bowl fast, but bowl utter rubbish and lose their (and their team's) advantage. Dilhara Fernando is one great example, then the now-retired Mohammed Sami, and of course, RP Singh, Munaf Patel and VRV Singh. Bhatia and Nayar, on the other hand, bowl sensibly.

Likewise, we find several bowlers (including specialists) from other teams who bowl in the 70s, have the keeper standing up and do a very good job. This is because they bowl sensibly. I can name a few- Scott Styris, Jacob Oram, Grant Elliot. They're slow, but accurate and smart. Jesse Ryder was very difficult to get away even on a flat wicket. That's something we can expect from Bhatia and Nayar as well. Just because they're Indian and they've succeeded in the Indian system doesn't make them so much worse. Moreover, the Indians don't have too many genuinely good pace options who add value to their team.

On the other hand, you have at least three talented specialist spinners- Harbhajan, Mishra and Ojha- and two often miss out because of the team's decision to play only one spinner, leaving the rest of the spin duty to the part-timers. Consequently, they either miss out on an advantage to take wickets when they're on top, or they are sitting ducks for a team batting well. We often see them being handled with kid gloves while the tougher tasks are given to the main bowlers.

That the part-time spinners have performed in international cricket is immaterial- they've hardly been full-time bowlers, and playing them as such is a very big risk, especially outside India's spin-friendly pitches. Looking at their domestic figures, we find they're not even regular bowlers in the domestic circuit, unlike the seam-bowling batsmen. Moreover, Sehwag and Yuvraj are your top batsmen. You need big hundreds from them. They should be allowed to concentrate on their batting, without getting them disturbed by calling them on to bowl, and letting them get thrashed, or worse, fatigued. We saw Sehwag bowl loads of overs and then get out for zero. The seam options are used to it, and they're not your best batsmen.

Ultimately, it's more or less an interim arrangement until they get Irfan back.
 

adharcric

International Coach
I'll take a slightly out-of-form Irfan over anyone in that list (only Nayar and Rana are even worth considering) if we're that desperate for a seam-bowling all-rounder. Even outside of Irfan, you're forgetting that Praveen Kumar got a call-up as an all-rounder and is far superior to these guys. Besides, Zaheer, Ishant and Praveen are all quality ODI bowlers so barring injuries, I'm not sure why we need a seam-bowling all-rounder so desperately. You have Yusuf Pathan and Ravindra Jadeja who have also had superb domestic seasons recently, so give them a fair shot first.
 
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Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
adharcric said:
I'll take a slightly out-of-form Irfan over anyone in that list (only Nayar and Rana are even worth considering) if we're that desperate for a seam-bowling all-rounder.
Like I said before, I'm game for it. I'd say, stop treating him as a dispensable bloke and give him an extended run, without putting too much pressure on him. But are you willing to take the risk? This is, after all, not the next best thing, but only cover.
adharcric said:
Even outside of Irfan, you're forgetting that Praveen Kumar got a call-up as an all-rounder and is far superior to these guys.
I'm game for that too, but he doesn't seem to be in the scheme of things- he's batting below seven batsmen, then Harbhajan, then Zaheer, which may have affected his batting. Irfan and this group are smart batsmen, while Praveen is no more than someone to let loose in the last ten overs.
Besides, Zaheer, Ishant and Praveen are all quality ODI bowlers so barring injuries, I'm not sure why we need a seam-bowling all-rounder so desperately.
The team needs a seam bowling all-rounder to put in two spinners. We've seen the Indians miss out on wicket-taking opportunities because they lack a competent second spinner, just like in Sri Lanka and now New Zealand in T20. The idea is to get in a seventh batsman who'll facilitate playing two spinners at home, or someone who'll be useful with the ball away.
adharcric said:
You have Yusuf Pathan and Ravindra Jadeja who have also had superb domestic seasons recently, so give them a fair shot first. [/qupte]I've said it once, and I'll say it again, Yusuf is worth a shot as a full all-rounder. However, Dhoni (after all, it's his decision) didn't even use him more than sparingly in India, so we don't know what to expect abroad. Jadeja was one too many picked for India, and isn't very special.
 

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