Build-up to Indian Domestic Season 2008-09

[Arjun]

The pace of the bowlers here was very low, but this is India. You don't have too many outright quick bowlers in the country, and several bowlers who are very talented and good enough for an India cap often miss out because they're too slow. Balaji, Paul, Bose, Gagandeep, Bhandari, RP Singh and Praveen Kumar are all fine bowlers, but have often missed out because they lack pace. They're very good otherwise- for instance, Bhandari, slowest of the A-team in England, took two five-wicket hauls, leaving behind the rest- yet he couldn't make an Indian team. India is stereotyped as inhospitable for fast bowlers, yet Gagandeep Singh has an average less than 20 for some time- but he's never played for India. On the other hand, greenhorns and bowlers averaging over 30 (like Sreesanth) or struggling to stay fit (VRV Singh) seem to get into an Indian XI purely on the promise of pace, and we've seen how good (?) they really are in a match. This needs a rethink. Rather than chopping and changing the personnel, the methods need a change.

 

[Arjun]

A point I missed out earlier, on one of the days of the Mumbai/HP match, the ball was changed some ten times, because it kept getting damaged. It's also good to see Abhishek Nayar take six wickets, but he's not been amongst the runs this season. While we were only updated by scorecards, the reporters at the ground will tell us that the HP attack was so weak, they had to have five bowlers and no less- especially when Vishal Bhatia was their frontline spinner. He used to be a North Zone player not too long ago, but bowled utter rubbish throughout the match.

With Tendulkar and Zaheer returning to the team for the semis (and hopefully the finals), we'll have a tournament-winning Mumbai XI playing-

• Jaffer and Rahane opening
• A middle-order of Tendulkar, Sharma and Mazumdar with a little help from Nayar
• Zaheer, Agarkar and Kulkarni leading the pace attack with support from Nayar again.
• Powar as the lone spinner and a very capable lower-order batsman.
• Samant behind the stumps, and hopefully no higher than nine in the batting order.

 

[Arjun]

Does anyone here see Ravindra Jadeja as a Test prospect? We find him fifth in the leading run-scorers list in this season, after Jaffer, Rahane, Mukund and Pujara- that includes a regular India reserve and two Test prospects. Moreover, he's also the second-highest wicket-taker this season.

That's a very remarkable feat, when we find that he's got a batting average in the 70s. When you couple that with 39 wickets in eight matches with an average under 20, that should get you thinking. Some of these feats have been achieved against top teams like Mumbai and Karnataka. With a middle-order berth open in the team, he adds a lot more value to that place, and has outperformed both left-arm spin prospects Pragyan Ojha and Murali Kartik this season. With the Indians preferring to play one specialist spinner in the XI abroad, they can surely fit him into the XI as the second, can't they?

 

[honestbharani]

Does anyone here see Ravindra Jadeja as a Test prospect? We find him fifth in the leading run-scorers list in this season, after Jaffer, Rahane, Mukund and Pujara- that includes a regular India reserve and two Test prospects. Moreover, he's also the second-highest wicket-taker this season.

That's a very remarkable feat, when we find that he's got a batting average in the 70s. When you couple that with 39 wickets in eight matches with an average under 20, that should get you thinking. Some of these feats have been achieved against top teams like Mumbai and Karnataka. With a middle-order berth open in the team, he adds a lot more value to that place, and has outperformed both left-arm spin prospects Pragyan Ojha and Murali Kartik this season. With the Indians preferring to play one specialist spinner in the XI abroad, they can surely fit him into the XI as the second, can't they?

He can be tried as the allrounder in the ODI side at #7... Right now, this is how I see the talent pool shaping up for us in ODIs:


Openers: Sehwag, Gambhir, Sachin, Vijay. There are others, but right now these guys should be more than enough..

Middle order: Gambhir (again), Raina, Rohit, Yuvraj, Badrinath, Kohli, Tiwary, Uthappa (perhaps)..

Keeper: Dhoni, Karthik, Saha and Patel (in that order) but Dhoni so so far ahead it is not funny.

Allrounder: Irfan, Yousuf, R Jadeja

Medium pacers: Zaheer, Ishant, Praveen, Irfan, RPS, Sreesanth (when fit), perhaps another 1 or 2 could be tried if they are serious about rotation.

Spinners: Harbhajan, Chawla, Ojha, Kartik

 

[Arjun]

He can be tried as the allrounder in the ODI side at #7...

Maybe it's Indian, or just human, to ask for more, but he should have a shot as a Test XI all-rounder. Let him stretch his ability that far, because he's worth a shot. Looking at the South African XI that's defeated the Australians in their own backyard, the Indians will need a full-fledged all-rounder to challenge them for the #1 position. That's been the blank space, and at present, he has a chance.

We're talking of the likes of Pujara, Rahane and Mukund making the Test XI. He's barely behind them in the runs tally, and has an average over 70. On top of that, he's the second-highest wicket-taker in the Ranji Trophy. That's very impressive, given that Murali Kartik and Pragyan Ojha are left-arm spin options for the Test team. Batting is his main strength and he stands a chance at six, and he can also bowl as much as a regular- as against any other Indian batsman in the Test team. Ideally, we'd prefer Irfan Pathan for that role, but until he gets back to taking chunks of wickets, Jadeja may be tried. As for the ODI point of view, there's not much he can do with the bat here, since he may not go higher than six or seven, and lacks the striking power.

Right now, this is how I see the talent pool shaping up for us in ODIs:

While we agree on most classifications, I'd say some of it should be altered a little-

Batsmen: Sehwag, Gambhir, Tendulkar, Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit in front and Badrinath, Vijay, Kaif and Pujara in reserve.

Batsmen taking wickets: Yusuf Pathan up in front, with Ravi Jadeja and Abhishek Nayar in reserve.

Wicketkeeper: Dhoni in front, of course. They can play a specialist wicketkeeper in the reserves, because that's also an important post, and the team needs a few all-rounders, not another Adam Gilchrist clone. That said, Karthik and especially Saha should stay in.

Bowlers scoring runs: Irfan is in front, though he's not in the best of form, followed by Praveen Kumar. Harbhajan Singh also appears here because he's become more of a run-scoring bowler than a strike bowler. Piyush Chawla and Amit Mishra can be in the reserves. You'll have a combination of them at seven, eight and nine. Zaheer is a wildcard here.

Bowlers: Of course, the current combination of Zaheer, Ishant and Munaf are ahead. Your reserves can be Sreesanth, RP Singh, Ojha and Mohnish Parmar (subject to action check).

 

[Arjun]

So far, both TN/UP and Mumba/Saurashtra matches are played on flat wickets. There's no bounce, no turn and absolutely no assistance to any bowler. Scorecards showed Mumbai at 260/1 and TN 296/2 at end of day's play. Even as I type, Rakesh Dhurv was getting some amount of turn while Mumbai were at 410/2. JAffer went past another double, while Tendulkar is on 46 of 60.

 

[Arjun]

Tendulkar is carting the Saurashtra bowling around with ease, reaching 50 with a four.

Now Jaydev Shah is bowling a negative line.

 

[adharcric]

FC cricket in India has become such a ****ing farce with tracks like these.

 

[Arjun]

Jaffer completed a triple century. Now there's a queue of openers for India- Sehwag, Gambhir, Vijay, and now Jaffer makes it ahead of Chopra. This was, however, not very convincing, as Sehwag has done the same against international attacks with reasonably good pace batteries. He looked streaky, didn't keep the momentum going and didn't capitalise on some really inept bowling by Saurashtra. Tendulkar, though, was excellent. Running a temperature, he scored a rapid century and retired when he was unwell, and that innings showed the effect of an international frontline batsman's presence in this match.

EDIT: Mumbai end day 2 on 637/6. Why wait till Agarkar and Powar come out to bat? Why not sink Saurashtra a little before Day 2 ended?

 

[Manee]

I think that Mumbai are thinking to just continue batting until they are bowled all out, something they can afford to do with this first innings lead rule and the tremendously flat nature of the pitches. I still feel, as always, that talent is far too diluted, we have the best four teams in the country and three of them do not possess one bowler who can bowl consistently at 130kph (even Praveen Kumar bowls mainly at 125kph) as an example. Furthermore, of our last Test XI, one player is present in the 44 players playing - a clear sign that there are too many teams and a consequent dilution of talent.

 

[honestbharani]

Hey SS, you can post in this thread too abt the Ranji games, you know...

 

[Arjun]

I think that Mumbai are thinking to just continue batting until they are bowled all out, something they can afford to do with this first innings lead rule and the tremendously flat nature of the pitches. I still feel, as always, that talent is far too diluted, we have the best four teams in the country and three of them do not possess one bowler who can bowl consistently at 130kph (even Praveen Kumar bowls mainly at 125kph) as an example. Furthermore, of our last Test XI, one player is present in the 44 players playing - a clear sign that there are too many teams and a consequent dilution of talent.

A lot of what you are seeing is because of that silly first-innings lead rule. TN are a prime beneficiary of that rule, so they have come so far despite having won so few matches. They can't win matches with a bowling attack like that, so they've had to bat out these leads so often, and the flat pitches help a lot. Among the teams that didn't make it to the semis, Baroda (Munaf Patel, Irfan Pathan), Gujarat (Siddharth Trivedi), Delhi (Ashish Nehra, Ishant Sharma, Amit Bhandari, Pradeep Sangwan- four in the pack), Bengal (Dinda) and Punjab (Gony, VRV Singh) have bowlers who bowl in the 130's quite often. Even here, Praveen Kumar and Balaji can bowl in the 130s often, but they're trying to get movement and control.

There are a whole lot of aspects to consider while evaluating these bowlers, and we have some fine bowlers here, who get good swing, can move the ball off the deck nicely and are also very consistent. Unfortunately, none of them are fast. We've tried to pick a bowler only on pace, and we've found Munaf Patel and VRV Singh. Now Munaf has cut down on pace drastically and still struggles to run a stretch, while VRV Singh struggles to even stand up and walk for a whole session. Balaji is bowling very well in this comeback season, while Gagandeep Singh has maintained an average under 20 for a very long time here, in India, not a haven for pacers. There are many who've maintained averages in the low 20s for over five seasons, but are not considered. This needs a rethink- they are good enough on almost all aspects, while they can somehow work around their lack of pace. Pace shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of selection- we see enough pacers in other teams (notably NZ) with bowlers who lack pace, yet do the job well.

One idea we can implement is handpicking some international players (or getting along those who volunteer) to play for Elite FC teams. We can have genuine pace bowlers operating presently and spread them out across the chart, with attacks low on pace getting a preference. We'll see how much of an effect it has then out here- it's a step up worth taking.

 

[Arjun]

It's Mumbai against Uttar Pradesh in the finals.

Mumbai crawled their way into the finals on the back of a massive first-innings lead against Saurashtra. Clearly, the boys from the far west didn't have an answer to this huge lead and were not up to the task. Their dependence on Pujara and Jadeja wa exposed here, as with these two not scoring (or scalping) much, their campaign ended on the spot.

Or maybe it was poor umpiring?

Uttar Pradesh scalped a lead over TN's 445, which looked impossible. Huge scores by Shivkant Shukla and Parminder Singh took them that far. A lot of the UP batsmen have averages over 40 and some over 50, which looks good, though it may be inflated on some flat wickets- either way, they could use some big scores to back up their bowlers.

Cash award for UP players

Ravindra Jadeja, it seems, is in line for a place in the ODI team. Let's hope he bowls as much as Murali Kartik and Pragyan Ojha and not a part-timer.

 

[adharcric]

Jadeja would be a very welcome addition to the one-day side. Yusuf Pathan's shown explosive ability with the bat but he's hardly making an impact with the ball. Pujara may just sneak ahead of Badrinath as Dravid's successor. Has anyone seen Rahane and Mukund bat? How's the technique on these two?

 

[Arjun]

Jadeja would be a very welcome addition to the one-day side. Yusuf Pathan's shown explosive ability with the bat but he's hardly making an impact with the ball.

There's not much point in replacing Yusuf so quickly. He's not played too much, and Dhoni has rarely used him as a bowler. No doubt Jadeja has FC stats in his favour, but we don't know if he's going to get a better chance under Dhoni. Yusuf, though, is good enough to stay and play a complete all-round role, like Sanath or Gayle. Jadeja, on the other hand, should aim for a Test berth as he's better suited there, and there's a gap wide open for a Test all-rounder.

Pujara may just sneak ahead of Badrinath as Dravid's successor.

He's got good technique, though relies a little on hand-eye co-ordination as well. Runs well between the wickets, and seeing him throw his wicket away so cheaply was a bit of a surprise.

Has anyone seen Rahane and Mukund bat? How's the technique on these two?

I haven't seen Mukund, but Rahane is technically very correct. Bats straight, provides the full face of the bat and can get on top of a spinner easily. He looked in complete control in that innings I had seen in the semi, and a lot more assured than Jaffer, who was rather streaky.

 

[adharcric]

Looks like a race between Badrinath, Pujara and Rahane for the #3 spot then.

 

[adharcric]

UP bowling well but Captain Kaif ruining things by dropping Sharma twice at slip.

 

[honestbharani]

Looks like a race between Badrinath, Pujara and Rahane for the #3 spot then.

I believe Rahane is more of an opener though.. And I don't see whoever replaces Dravid batting at 3 while Laxman is still around. And I think Badri has not shown any real lapse in form to be replaced... All conjecture obviously, but even with Rohit doing well now, I do think Badri will be on the plane to New Zealand as the reserve middle order batsman and Vijay as the reserve opener. They may take a reserve keeper and two more quickies and I expect Praveen Kumar and/or Irfan Pathan to be there at New Zealand considering how the pitches and conditions are over there..


Although, I believe the last time we went there was in December/January and this time we are going in the late season as it is in March/April. Maybe our Kiwi posters here can tell us how the conditions will be around then..

 

[adharcric]

I believe Rahane is more of an opener though.. And I don't see whoever replaces Dravid batting at 3 while Laxman is still around. And I think Badri has not shown any real lapse in form to be replaced... All conjecture obviously, but even with Rohit doing well now, I do think Badri will be on the plane to New Zealand as the reserve middle order batsman and Vijay as the reserve opener. They may take a reserve keeper and two more quickies and I expect Praveen Kumar and/or Irfan Pathan to be there at New Zealand considering how the pitches and conditions are over there..


Although, I believe the last time we went there was in December/January and this time we are going in the late season as it is in March/April. Maybe our Kiwi posters here can tell us how the conditions will be around then..

Too early for Rahane but Pujara could sneak ahead of Badrinath if the former thrives and the latter struggles in the Duleep Trophy. Two of Praveen, Irfan and Sreesanth should be in the tour squad as reserves so that's another race to keep an eye on.

 

[Jono]

Sachin ducks up!

Fair ton by Rohit Sharma though! Would have been a great partnership with Nayar. Too bad Nayar was dismissed for 99 too.