bring back alex tudor!!!

[Richard]

and you have proven this how i might ask?

Well, I've proven it to myself by watching the wickets.
You might like to do the same, sometime.

 

[Richard]

I know you think you understand pretty much everything there is to understand about the game by parking yourself on your butt in-front of the TV, but do you understand that these guys put in enormous amounts of practice everyday so that they can land the ball with a degree of control that you or I can only imagine?

I understand how much practice they put in, yes.
I also understand that it is not the case that if I put in that amount of practice I could also bowl with that accuracy.

Do you understand exactly how good a ball you have to bowl to beat a batsman all ends up?
Yes - not that good. I could do it, if I bowled enough and in the right conditions.
What takes the skill is doing it consistently.

DO you understand that no matter how good the batsman is, if a bowler starts doing both of these things on a regular basis it has an effect on their mindset and approach?

Yes, and so it should - but not one that makes them think "oh, better play a poor stroke, then".

 

[tooextracool]

Well, fine - have it your way.
You aren't going to convince me that Katich wasn't very edgy at the start of that innings, whatever the reasons.

yes i have realised that, but even you despite of whatever you think about the start of that innings must admit that he played kumble better than anyone else in that australian side, and for that he deserves a hell of a lot of credit....

No, it didn't..

actually you are right, i was thinking about some other thread......that had to do with you bringing up irrelevant stuff about stuff that even you know didnt happen in the game....

If the bowlers were so useless (which, BTW, you'd realise Saqlain and Salisbury aren't) surely that makes it even worse that he strugged against them?

because salisbury's first class avg of 32.55 along with his brilliant international career, dont make him useless?

The proof that he wasn't in 2003 was that he strugged against Brown and Swann. It's all the proof I need - whether you accept that he used to be poor against spin is irrelevant, because you think he is not now - and the now is what matters.

in as many as 1 game then? against 2 spinners who arent even near test class.....

We'll see if Katich plays the turning ball as well as Hayden in the upcoming 2 months.
If he does, I will quite happily add him to my list of Australian batsmen who don't have trouble with the turning ball. I'd be delighted to, in fact. Just like I am that Lehmann is on it.

and he doesnt need to be as good as hayden to prove you wrong that he has 'trouble' against the turning ball.......

 

[tooextracool]

Well, I've proven it to myself by watching the wickets.
You might like to do the same, sometime.

and if you cant even come close to proving this to anyone else on these forums then maybe just maybe you should just keep this to yourself instead of making such bold claims.......i've watched enough of harmison to give him credit for the wickets hes taken.

 

[tooextracool]

Wrong, never said anything of the sort.
Correct.
They can, however, be out-bowled.

isnt this argument in another thread?if it is then lets just keep it there....

 

[marc71178]

Yes, and so it should - but not one that makes them think "oh, better play a poor stroke, then".

No, but it does make them chase a looser ball that may not be as hittable as they think, causing their demise.

 

[luckyeddie]

isnt this argument in another thread?if it is then lets just keep it there....

Sees the irony, points and laughs

 

[Richard]

yes i have realised that, but even you despite of whatever you think about the start of that innings must admit that he played kumble better than anyone else in that australian side, and for that he deserves a hell of a lot of credit....

Oh, yes, he does - and I'm only too happy to give it him.

because salisbury's first class avg of 32.55 along with his brilliant international career, dont make him useless?

No, they don't - not at the point we're talking about.
He has been pretty useless these last 4 seasons, I won't deny that - but he certainly wasn't in 1999 and 2000 (the year in question, incidentally).

in as many as 1 game then? against 2 spinners who arent even near test class.....

And the fact that they're not Test-class means it's even more significant that he strugged against them.

and he doesnt need to be as good as hayden to prove you wrong that he has 'trouble' against the turning ball.......

OK, then - close to as well as Hayden... well enough to get a good average.

 

[Richard]

No, but it does make them chase a looser ball that may not be as hittable as they think, causing their demise.

Does it?
In my experience it seems to make them think something along the lines of "this is a tricky little passage - better not try playing too many strokes here - let's wait till it gets a bit easier".

 

[luckyeddie]

Does it?
In my experience it seems to make them think something along the lines of "this is a tricky little passage - better not try playing too many strokes here - let's wait till it gets a bit easier".

But you have no experience - that's the whole point.
Do you actually know any ex-pros who might be able to substantiate this quite extraordinary theory which flies in the face of everything I've ever heard??

 

[Richard]

No - but I've watched plenty who've played in a manner that suggests they were thinking something along the lines of that.

 

[marc71178]

So, as LE says, you have no actual experience of it, just something that in your ideal little world (population 1) happens.

However in the real world (population 5,999,999,999 or so) - it doesn't work out like that.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh, yes, he does - and I'm only too happy to give it him.

and yet you call him a poor player of spin then?

No, they don't - not at the point we're talking about.
He has been pretty useless these last 4 seasons, I won't deny that - but he certainly wasn't in 1999 and 2000 (the year in question, incidentally).

and incidentally what a brilliant job he did in the few international matches that he played in pakistan at that time, or even in 98....

And the fact that they're not Test-class means it's even more significant that he strugged against them

yes in one game(that proves a lot), on what one must assume given how useless those 2 are was a spinner friendly wicket.....

OK, then - close to as well as Hayden... well enough to get a good average.

of course that would depend on current form too, from what ive heard he hasnt been in the best of form of late....

 

[SpaceMonkey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/counties/surrey/3693650.stm

Tudor released by Surray with a year still left on his contract.
A bit shocked to see this even though i guess it shouldnt be THAT much of a shock considering how little he's played.

 

[wpdavid]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/counties/surrey/3693650.stm

Tudor released by Surray with a year still left on his contract.
A bit shocked to see this even though i guess it shouldnt be THAT much of a shock considering how little he's played.

I wonder if Surrey have lined up Kirby, who's keen to leave Yorkshire.

 

[luckyeddie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/counties/surrey/3693650.stm

Tudor released by Surray with a year still left on his contract.
A bit shocked to see this even though i guess it shouldnt be THAT much of a shock considering how little he's played.

I guess this means he's not about to replace Darren Gough in the England one-day side then.

 

[dro87]

he now player club cricket with Spencer, play as a batsman, bats number 3 and doens't bowl...

 

[Richard]

So, as LE says, you have no actual experience of it, just something that in your ideal little world (population 1) happens.

However in the real world (population 5,999,999,999 or so) - it doesn't work out like that.

Maybe because the "real" World makes assumptions too often and doesn't actually look properly...

 

[Richard]

and yet you call him a poor player of spin then?

No, I say he had problems with spin not so long ago and I'm not willing to judge that he's solved them because of 2 matches.

and incidentally what a brilliant job he did in the few international matches that he played in pakistan at that time, or even in 98....

Neither of which I referred to.

yes in one game(that proves a lot), on what one must assume given how useless those 2 are was a spinner friendly wicket.....

Yes, it was - anyone can play any fingerspinner without too much difficulty if it's not a spin-friendly wicket.
One game proves a lot more than it would isolated if it evokes another game 3 years ago.

of course that would depend on current form too, from what ive heard he hasnt been in the best of form of late....

Shame.
But then again, form is temporary.
And he didn't look too bad in his sabbatical at Hants - while not his commanding best.

 

[marc71178]

Maybe because the "real" World makes assumptions too often and doesn't actually look properly...

Of course, the whole rest of the world is wrong, and you're right