bring back alex tudor!!!

[Craig]

Seeing as it didn't ever happen, then it wasn't better!

And I'd back the current team to beat it anyway, because it's short of bowlers.

Four bowlers is short?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Four bowlers is short?

It is when two are White and Cork.

 

[Richard]

Conveniently ignoring Thorpe, who is still playing...while players who were injured in that "all-star" team are definitely accepted as having been there...

I wasn't "ignoring" Thorpe - he just didn't play in the most recent Test, which is why I put Bell in there.
Most of that team played together, the closest it got was this:
Atherton
Trescothick
Hussain
Thorpe
Stewart
Vaughan
Hick
White
Cork
Caddick
Gough
Headingley and The Oval, 2000.
Given that Butcher and Ramprakash were secure in a place next summer, I'd guess my team would have played together had not Hussain, Vaughan, Thorpe and White not suffered injuries and Cork suffered one and lost the ability to swing the ball upon his return.

 

[Richard]

It is when two are White and Cork.

In spite of the fact that both of them have proven to be outstanding bowlers at their best?

 

[marc71178]

On very rare occasions on the part of both.

I wonder if you'd rate them so highly if they were playing for England at the levels they did for the majority of their careers today?

 

[steds]

In spite of the fact that both of them have proven to be outstanding bowlers at their best?

True for Cork, but not for White. If it was, he'd play for a good county instead of Yorkshire

 

[Neil Pickup]

In spite of the fact that both of them have proven to be outstanding bowlers at their best?

Yes, at their best, however Cork peaked sometime around 1995-7, and was a shadow of that come 2000, and White's peaks were so very occasional...

 

[Richard]

So if he's a shadow of himself in 2000, that's why he averaged 12.25, then, is it?
Maybe he wasn't at his best in 2002 (and he certainly wasn't in 2001 - not a single ball swung) but it wasn't helped by the fact that he was invariably picked at the wrong times.
And he played most of last season with a chipped bone in his ankle, still averaged well, and has been poor this season.

 

[Richard]

On very rare occasions on the part of both.

I wonder if you'd rate them so highly if they were playing for England at the levels they did for the majority of their careers today?

Not quite sure I understand this post.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Cork and White were distinctly average players at International level, the odd decent game withstanding......pick them again for the Ashes though if you like! haha That'd be outstanding for us

 

[Richard]

I can't believe you are going to have much trouble with Hoggard, Anderson or Jones, either. You will almost certainly have trouble with Giles if any of the pitches turn as much as those for the third, fourth and fifth Tests of last summer did. And I'll see how much trouble South Africa have with Harmison before predicting anything there.

 

[luckyeddie]

Cork and White were distinctly average players at International level, the odd decent game withstanding......pick them again for the Ashes though if you like! haha That'd be outstanding for us

It's a debate which has raged long and hard on here - and the effectiveness or value of any player to WINNING is nothing to do with what their average performances are, but how often they produced performances which were significantly above their average.

The way you got the best out of Cork was to drop him, upset him or both - he would come back and give the opposition hell - and oh yes, he was most definitely capable of the distinctly UN-average. Give me Corky over the Kiwi with the FA Cup ears any day of the week - provided you'd jabbed him with a sharp stick first.

White was different - busy and workmanlike as opposed to inspirational - frankly I couldn't understand how he got into the England side in the mid-1990's, but toward the end of his (international) career he was well worth his place.

 

[steds]

The way you got the best out of Cork was to drop him, upset him or both - he would come back and give the opposition hell - and oh yes, he was most definitely capable of the distinctly UN-average. Give me Corky over the Kiwi with the FA Cup ears any day of the week - provided you'd jabbed him with a sharp stick first.

F**k Duncan Fletcher and Troy Cooley. Get LE and DD in!

 

[luckyeddie]

F**k Duncan Fletcher and Troy Cooley. Get LE and DD in!

Thanks.

Funnily enough, I used to coach/motivate bowlers (of the tenpin bowling kind) - and quite successfully as far as a couple were concerned.

 

[steds]

Thanks.

Funnily enough, I used to coach/motivate bowlers (of the tenpin bowling kind) - and quite successfully as far as a couple were concerned.

He's got the pedigree, aswell

 

[luckyeddie]

He's got the pedigree, aswell

Only live 15 miles from Burton.

The Marston's Pedigree around here is fantastic.

 

[Richard]

The way you got the best out of Cork was to drop him, upset him or both - he would come back and give the opposition hell - and oh yes, he was most definitely capable of the distinctly UN-average. Give me Corky over the Kiwi with the FA Cup ears any day of the week - provided you'd jabbed him with a sharp stick first.

Give me the two of them at the top of their game on a seaming pitch any day.
They always have been and still are capable of totally destroying the best of batting-line-ups in the right conditions.
And at their best they were equally capable of providing a foil for Gough and White on wickets better for batting.

 

[marc71178]

And at their best they were equally capable of providing a foil for Gough and White on wickets better for batting.

A foil for White?

59 wickets @ 37.62.

You yourself have said that there can't be a good bowler without a good average...

In his entire career he had 1 whole series when he averaged under 30.

He only averages under 30 against one nation...

He doesn't need a foil, he needs a replacement!

 

[Son Of Coco]

It's a debate which has raged long and hard on here - and the effectiveness or value of any player to WINNING is nothing to do with what their average performances are, but how often they produced performances which were significantly above their average.

The way you got the best out of Cork was to drop him, upset him or both - he would come back and give the opposition hell - and oh yes, he was most definitely capable of the distinctly UN-average. Give me Corky over the Kiwi with the FA Cup ears any day of the week - provided you'd jabbed him with a sharp stick first.

White was different - busy and workmanlike as opposed to inspirational - frankly I couldn't understand how he got into the England side in the mid-1990's, but toward the end of his (international) career he was well worth his place.

Fair enough, but from England's record during the period they both played I don't think they had a great record as far as winning went either (or producing performances that lead to a win). Having to rile someone up to get them performing is going to prove to be a largely futile exercise most of the time (see Devon Malcolm), although it could be argued that Cork was at least as good a first innings option as jug ears, cause the latter often forgot to turn up with his heart.

 

[Richard]

A foil for White?

59 wickets @ 37.62.

You yourself have said that there can't be a good bowler without a good average...

In his entire career he had 1 whole series when he averaged under 30.

He only averages under 30 against one nation...

He doesn't need a foil, he needs a replacement!

And I've never denied he underperformed disappointingly in his Test-career.
However, there is little dispute that White in the summer of 2000 and most of the winter of 2000\01 bowled exceedingly well, even if he didn't quite get the figures in Pakistan or Sri Lanka.
Sadly, he never managed to maintain that form, though he occasionally showed glimpses of it again in the summer of 2002 and the winter of 2002\03, where he outperformed the others without ever doing especially brilliantly.