Brian Lara vs Ricky Ponting

[subshakerz]

Bro, you're no different. You've done and said the same about Lara, Ambrose and even tried with Marshall. Don't get me started on how you berate poor Ashwin. And anytime your hypocrisy is pointed out, you bring up some bs about "context" as if that only applies to players you rate. So from here on, if Lara isn't top tier because he averages under 50 away, then neither is Imran for not averaging under 25 away. Good talk....

I like how you implicitly agree with my @kyear2 critique.

And we can define top tier any way we want.

 

[kyear2]

Oh goody, this again.

Yup.

Problem?

 

[kyear2]

Whatever.


Got it, so you agree Lara isn't top tier.


Bowling top tier is pretty different. Anyways, we've gone over it, you will create new equations or metrics but whatever happens Imran can't be top tier.

In my case, the top ten is pretty much the top tier.


Yes Lara and Sachin were split in the era.


Ok. Mainly due to age. He had an exceptionally long career. So?


Sure let's talk about the context for the 100th time.


Irrelevant.

Anyways you really need to get over this Imran obsession of yours. It's unhealthy and to see it crop up randomly is disconcerting.

Sarcasm

Why is bowling different to batting?

So why is the top 10 bowlers top tier but the top 10 batsmen aren't?

Even in said peak his away average was 5 points higher than at home.

The context was tampering and home umpires.

As soon as you drop yours of Lara, Ambrose and Kallis. Quite unhealthy and disconcerting everytime either name is mentioned.

 

[Coronis]

Yup.

Problem?

I mean sure downgrade whoever you want. ut when you try and downgrade Bradman you look a bit silly. I’m sure that doesn’t bother you.

 

[kyear2]

Yes. But @kyear2 thinks Imran is a cheat so has had a crusade the past several years to downgrade all his achievements, be it in bowling, batting or captaincy. He can't rate him too highly even as bit by bit it has been pointed out to him the level of what Imran had done. For example, he considers Imran in WI below ATG level and considers Imran in Aus a failure without brining up WSC.

It's really tiresome at this point but anyways.

I don't think he was a cheat, he was one.

How is this different to your open and stated intent to take Ambrose down a peg, highlight Lara's deficiencies and prove Kallis is over rated?

And yes, your Lara bashing is quite tiresome.

 

[kyear2]

I like how you implicitly agree with my @kyear2 critique.

And we can define top tier any way we want.

And yours is hypocritical as hell.

Both reasons u use for Lara, not only doesn't apply for Lara, but directly does for your guy.

Plus he cheated and benefitted from home umpires.

So yeah.

 

[kyear2]

I mean sure downgrade whoever you want. ut when you try and downgrade Bradman you look a bit silly. I’m sure that doesn’t bother you.

Not nearly as silly as some of your takes, so we're about even.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think he was a cheat, he was one.

How is this different to your open and stated intent to take Ambrose down a peg, highlight Lara's deficiencies and prove Kallis is over rated?

And yes, your Lara bashing is quite tiresome.

Dude, it's fine if you think Imran is a cheat.

The difference is that when I knock Lara, Ambrose, Kallis, etc my critique is very normally simple, consistent and straightforward. What you don't like is me pounding it again and again to the extent where it becomes an established point on CW regarding that cricketer, when even you have begrudgingly admitted to incorproate these points yourself, like in your upgrading of Steyn over Ambrose.

The problem with you and Imran is your mutating critiques with countless threads directly or indirectly trying to downplay him, your statements about his batting, bowling and captaincy are by your own admission just now bad faith, since you just rate him less based on thinking he is a cheat not all the rest of the excuses you bring.

You should be honest with your reasons. Nobody should take a word you say about Imran with a hint of seriousness, and frankly it compromises the integrity of your other positions and just makes you look foolish.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Dude, it's fine if you think Imran is a cheat.

The difference is that when I knock Lara, Ambrose, Kallis, etc my critique is very normally simple, consistent and straightforward. What you don't like is me pounding it again and again to the extent where it becomes an established point on CW regarding that cricketer, when even you have begrudgingly admitted to incorproate these points yourself, like in your upgrading of Steyn over Ambrose.

The problem with you and Imran is your mutating critiques with countless threads directly or indirectly trying to downplay him, your statements about his batting, bowling and captaincy are by your own admission just now bad faith, since you just rate him less based on thinking he is a cheat not all the rest of the excuses you bring.

You should be honest with your reasons. Nobody should take a word you say about Imran with a hint of seriousness, and frankly it compromises the integrity of your other positions and just makes you look foolish.

No, what you post is not normal, it's annoying and gets old quite frankly. Here are a few examples using only Lara. There's more concerning other players. Somebody says Lara was an exceptional player of spin, but here you come with the nonsense about Lara not doing well vs flatter spin bowlers. In this very thread you want to drop Lara to some 2nd tier bs because he averages 48 away. You remember the other day when out of the blue you posted a clip of Lara vs of all people Devon Malcolm to show he was uncomfortable vs pace. For goodness sake everyone and their mother has already acknowledged and accepted that he was but for whatever reason you just keep beating that dead horse. And being uncomfortable doesn't take away from the fact that Lara still put the willow and make runs vs real pace from time to time.

If Kyear2 is getting under your skin for his take on Imran, you are no different in the way you rub me and I assume others in your takes on: Kallis, Lara, Ambrose, Ashwin, you tried with Marshall, etc

 

[ankitj]

As this way of comparing players is becoming common these days, we should define what close means.

Let's say, two batters rank x and y respectively in an AT batting list (x>y).
then, define closeness, C(x,y)={(x-y)^(1/4)}*{(x/y)^(4/5)}
if C(x,y)<=3, then it's close; otherwise it's not.

Doesn't take any stats into account at all, but still a decent first step to define "close".

In case of Brian Lara and Ponting imo, C(x,y)=3.605>3, so, not close for me.

2x ≥ y means they are close

 

[subshakerz]

No, what you post is not normal, it's annoying and gets old quite frankly. Here are a few examples using only Lara. There's more concerning other players. Somebody says Lara was an exceptional player of spin, but here you come with the nonsense about Lara not doing well vs flatter spin bowlers. In this very thread you want to drop Lara to some 2nd tier bs because he averages 48 away. You remember the other day when out of the blue you posted a clip of Lara vs of all people Devon Malcolm to show he was uncomfortable vs pace. For goodness sake everyone and their mother has already acknowledged and accepted that he was but for whatever reason you just keep beating that dead horse. And being uncomfortable doesn't take away from the fact that Lara still put the willow and make runs vs real pace from time to time.

It's annoying only to fanboys who treat their favorite as sacred and beyond critique.

Otherwise, you should welcome new info.

Lara not dominating flatter spinners isn't BS, he admitted it himself several times. I didn't call it a weakness per se.

As for effective ness versus quality pace, you basically were shown the issues with your raw average approach, let not rehash it.

If Kyear2 is getting under your skin for his take on Imran, you are no different in the way you rub me and I assume others in your takes on: Kallis, Lara, Ambrose, Ashwin, you tried with Marshall, etc

The occasional rub makes a more entertaining forum. But at least we don't need to hide our real opinions.

 

[honestbharani]

The occasional rub makes a more entertaining forum.

Always knew salty was missing few things in his life.


Also, this is the wrong forum if that is what you want.

 

[subshakerz]

Always knew salty was missing few things in his life.


Also, this is the wrong forum if that is what you want.

Dude grow up.

 

[honestbharani]

pathetically sad and sadly pathetic at the same time

 

[Sliferxxxx]

It's annoying only to fanboys who treat their favorite as sacred and beyond critique.

Otherwise, you should welcome new info.

Lara not dominating flatter spinners isn't BS, he admitted it himself several times. I didn't call it a weakness per se.

As for effective ness versus quality pace, you basically were shown the issues with your raw average approach, let not rehash it.


The occasional rub makes a more entertaining forum. But at least we don't need to hide our real opinions.

Aren't you doing the same regarding Imran?? I'll answer that for you, yes you are. So kindly step down from your high horse....

 

[subshakerz]

Aren't you doing the same regarding Imran?? I'll answer that for you, yes you are. So kindly step down from your high horse....

IK often gets rated as no.3 cricketer ever on CW, you are aware. Even I don't rate him that high.

 

[sayon basak]

2x ≥ y means they are close

My initial though was this. But then I thought that I rank Sachin and Lara as 2nd and 6th respectively, that'd mean they aren't close.

So I wanted to account for the difference along with the ratio. But guess that doesn't work either. As Capt_Luffy suggested, closeness is not some continuous attribute that could be explained by continuous functions, but rather depends on the individual players.

 

[DrWolverine]

My initial though was this. But then I thought that I rank Sachin and Lara as 2nd and 6th respectively, that'd mean they aren't close.

3-5 : Hobbs, Sobers & Richards?

 

[sayon basak]

3-5 : Hobbs, Sobers & Richards?

You'd be correct, tho I could swap Sobers and Richards.

 

[sayon basak]

My initial though was this. But then I thought that I rank Sachin and Lara as 2nd and 6th respectively, that'd mean they aren't close.

So I wanted to account for the difference along with the ratio. But guess that doesn't work either. As Capt_Luffy suggested, closeness is not some continuous attribute that could be explained by continuous functions, but rather depends on the individual players.

@honestbharani are Lara and Sachin close?