Bowling ARs vs Batting ARs

[subshakerz]

Because Kyear chickened out of this debate, I am making a thread on it.

We are dealing with the following players:

A good batting AR, batting average in the late 30s and early 40s and bowling averages high 30s with 1 WPM.

A good bowling AR, bowling average in the late 20s and batting average in the late 20s.

A great batting AR, batting average in the 50s (ATVG) and bowling average mid 30s with 1.5 WPM.

A great bowling AR, bowling average in the early 20s (ATVG), lower order batting average in the early 30s

_________

There are two teams.

The first is 2000s Zimbabwe.

The second is 2000s Australia.

For either team, state which of the good ARs you would prefer in the side, and which of the great ARs (not two ARs together).

 

[TheJediBrah]

ok

 

[Coronis]

2000’s Zimbabwe doesn’t care, they still fold and get out of cricket for a few years. Hypothetical player would not play for Zimbabwe and claim he’s a Rhodesian South African and be the succesor to Kallis/Pollock

 

[capt_Luffy]

Because Kyear chickened out of this debate, I am making a thread on it.

We are dealing with the following players:

A good batting AR, batting average in the late 30s and early 40s and bowling averages high 30s with 1 WPM.

A good bowling AR, bowling average in the late 20s and batting average in the late 20s.

A great batting AR, batting average in the 50s (ATVG) and bowling average mid 30s with 1.5 WPM.

A great bowling AR, bowling average in the early 20s (ATVG), lower order batting average in the early 30s

_________

There are two teams.

The first is 2000s Zimbabwe.

The second is 2000s Australia.

For either team, state which of the good ARs you would prefer in the side, and which of the great ARs (not two ARs together).

You limited votes to 2 options

 

[subshakerz]

You limited votes to 2 options

Corrected

 

[ataraxia]

Because Kyear chickened out of this debate, I am making a thread on it.

We are dealing with the following players:

A good batting AR, batting average in the late 30s and early 40s and bowling averages high 30s with 1 WPM.

A good bowling AR, bowling average in the late 20s and batting average in the late 20s.

A great batting AR, batting average in the 50s (ATVG) and bowling average mid 30s with 1.5 WPM.

A great bowling AR, bowling average in the early 20s (ATVG), lower order batting average in the early 30s

_________

There are two teams.

The first is 2000s Zimbabwe.

The second is 2000s Australia.

For either team, state which of the good ARs you would prefer in the side, and which of the great ARs (not two ARs together).

Both the bowling all-rounders are a good bit better than the batting all-rounders presented IMO. Which renders the question rather moot.

 

[subshakerz]

Both the bowling all-rounders are a good bit better than the batting all-rounders presented IMO. Which renders the question rather moot.

What would be a bowling AR more comparable?

 

[ataraxia]

Bowl 30 bat 20; bowl 22 bat 25.

 

[subshakerz]

Bowl 30 bat 20; bowl 22 bat 25.

I don't consider the former a AR.

 

[ataraxia]

I don't consider the former a AR.

1 WPM is a third to a quarter of a full-time bowler. A 20-averaging bat is a third of a full-time batter. It makes sense.

 

[shortpitched713]

Whatever is between Hadlee/Ashwin (qualify) and Akram/Philander (don't qualify), should be minimum for a bowling all-rounder. Something like 24.5 average, I guess.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Whatever is between Hadlee/Ashwin (qualify) and Akram/Philander (don't qualify), should be minimum for a bowling all-rounder. Something like 24.5 average, I guess.

Benaud falls a sliver behind that arbitrary mark, though unlike most bowlers with a batting average around that mark, he only had 7 NOs out of his 97 innings (if measure runs per innings rather than runs per dismissal, Benaud is almost identical to Hadlee and Ashwin) and batted the majority of his innings in the top 7, I think Benaud counts.

Anyway, to answer the question, I don’t have any data to back this up, but I think it’s much rarer to have a player who would feature in a team’s top 7 who can get at least a wicket per innings than a bowler who can average around that 25 mark, to take a present day example, if Woakes isn’t in the England team, we have bowlers who can more or less replace his batting at number 8 (not to say anything about their respective bowling abilities), but when Stokes can’t bowl, there are no batters who can pick up the slack

 

[shortpitched713]

Batting AR vs Bowling AR is just a less extreme version of Batsman vs Bowler. We all know where I stand on that.

I think getting the bowling all-rounder generally will add more value than the batting all-rounder.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Benaud falls a sliver behind that arbitrary mark, though unlike most bowlers with a batting average around that mark, he only had 7 NOs out of his 97 innings (if measure runs per innings rather than runs per dismissal, Benaud is almost identical to Hadlee and Ashwin) and batted the majority of his innings in the top 7, I think Benaud counts.

Anyway, to answer the question, I don’t have any data to back this up, but I think it’s much rarer to have a player who would feature in a team’s top 7 who can get at least a wicket per innings than a bowler who can average around that 25 mark, to take a present day example, if Woakes isn’t in the England team, we have bowlers who can more or less replace his batting at number 8 (not to say anything about their respective bowling abilities), but when Stokes can’t bowl, there are no batters who can pick up the slack

Root

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

Batting AR vs Bowling AR is just a less extreme version of Batsman vs Bowler. We all know where I stand on that.

I think getting the bowling all-rounder generally will add more value than the batting all-rounder.

Reckon the number of genuine all-rounders in the game today is probably split quite evenly between batting all-rounders and bowling all-rounders, but I also reckon there are more bowlers who come close to being bowling all-rounders than batters who come close to being batting all-rounders

 

[TheJediBrah]

2000’s Zimbabwe doesn’t care, they still fold and get out of cricket for a few years. Hypothetical player would not play for Zimbabwe and claim he’s a Rhodesian South African and be the succesor to Kallis/Pollock

Would definitely get poached by England to fill a void left by their dire lack of local talent but then end up turning **** and struggling at the top level after toxic association with their culture of mediocrity and failure