Bowlers that srtike terror in batsmen's heart!

[Richard]

Just because someone gets sconed by a fast bowler doesn't mean he can't handle "a bit of pace". Ramnaresh Sarwan had to retire hurt in the last test after getting hit by Bond, does that mean he can't handle pace?

No, it probably means he wasn't feeling fit to bat and sensibly decided to try again later rather than keeping going and probably getting out almost immidiately.
Michael Papps seems to have attained notoriety for looking scared of Lee; Sarwan (and virtually any other batsman to play at international level) has not done so, even if they have retired hurt a few times.

As it is, I distinctly remember you swearing black and blue once that pace makes very little difference to a bowler's effectiveness - which way do you want it?

Err, what? I've said it's the least important of the 3 things (MAP), and I've said 95mph pace in itself is very little use without sideways movement, but I've certainly not said it "makes very little difference". Quite clearly accurate outswing at 85mph is much more difficult to face than accurate outswing at 75mph.

As far as Bond v Gilchrist goes - he's gotten Gilly out three times out of six one-dayers, which isn't a bad strike rate, and Harmo's got him twice out of five. I don't think they're scared at all.

ODIs - getting batsmen out in ODIs is easy compared to Tests. I was, clearly, referring to Tests.

 

[IndianByHeart]

Plenty of batsmen of Richards' calibre these days do wear helmets. Hence, they feel happier facing extremely fast bowlers, and the game of cricket is better for it.

Agreed, but not all batsmen are of VIV calibre, hence not all the batsmen are HAPPY facing express fast bowlers.

 

[Richard]

Why cant Mohammad Asif make that list? Considering some others who have.

Because he's Pakistani and the list was made by a one-eyed Indian?

 

[Richard]

I think Shaun Tait should be on the list - he's very fast, has an unusual action batsmen seem to find difficult, or at least requiring some adjustment, and more to the point, nobody, least of all him, knows where the ball is actually going to go.

That assumes that the list was serious.

 

[IndianByHeart]

Because he's Pakistani and the list was made by a one-eyed Indian?

Then i guess Akhtar is an Indian too

 

[marc71178]

And look at who was the most ineffective bowler on the England side...

Erm Ashley Giles?

 

[Richard]

Then i guess Akhtar is an Indian too

How many times have you stated you rate Akhtar above the other Pakistani pacers, that Akhtar is the only one now, whereas Pakistan used to have several good seamers?

 

[Richard]

Erm Ashley Giles?

Harmison in the last 4 Tests (those that England dominated): 9 wickets at 50.22 (3 of them tail-enders, 2 from poor decisions, 1 other at the end of the innings).
Giles in the last 4 Tests: 10 wickets at 52.20
Seems Giles was a bit more effective, to me, given that he got more than 3 legitimate wickets in the Tests that formed the most important part of the series.

 

[IndianByHeart]

How many times have you stated you rate Akhtar above the other Pakistani pacers, that Akhtar is the only one now, whereas Pakistan used to have several good seamers?

whatever it means

 

[Goughy]

IVAR was exceptional in many ways.
Even in his own age, he was an exceptional rarity.
Plenty of batsmen of Richards' calibre these days do wear helmets. Hence, they feel happier facing extremely fast bowlers, and the game of cricket is better for it.

Well if we are judging fast bowlers on how Viv fared then Duncan Spencer must be up there.

I remeber seeing him rough Richards up very badly in a Kent v Glamorgan game in the early 90's.

That boy was lightning, very skiddy and frightning. Oh and also a steroid user but that was years later.

 

[HowsThat]

Remins me of M marshall, Colin Croft, J thommo... they actually used to freighten the batsmen.

Remember Imran mentioning that some of his batsmen were FRIGHTENED to face the great M Marshall!!

Sad that the great guy died do young

 

[Dick Rockett]

No, it probably means he wasn't feeling fit to bat and sensibly decided to try again later rather than keeping going and probably getting out almost immidiately.
Michael Papps seems to have attained notoriety for looking scared of Lee; Sarwan (and virtually any other batsman to play at international level) has not done so, even if they have retired hurt a few times.

Funny how when one batsman goes off hurt, it's sensible. When another goes off with a giant egg on the side of his head, he's scared. If Papps gets a run against Fidel Edwards in the next test, perhaps he can prove that such allegations are vindictive and baseless.

Err, what? I've said it's the least important of the 3 things (MAP), and I've said 95mph pace in itself is very little use without sideways movement, but I've certainly not said it "makes very little difference". Quite clearly accurate outswing at 85mph is much more difficult to face than accurate outswing at 75mph.

Err, what yourself. You can spin it however you like, but you've made it quite clear in the past that you think pace is of little consequence. You were spouting on about all that during the "who's fastest" debates of a couple of years ago - probably with the intent of raining on everyone elses parade, which you seem to enjoy.

ODIs - getting batsmen out in ODIs is easy compared to Tests. I was, clearly, referring to Tests.

Not at all clear. I couldn't use tests as a fair example in Bond's case anyway, as he's only played them once. But I still think it's ridiculous to suggest that either he or Harmison could possibly be scared of Gilchrist, as you suggest. They may not enjoy being hit for six, but they sure as heck don't need to worry about physical harm.

 

[Richard]

whatever it means

Well - it means that you're not adverse to putting him in when you name nonsense like Sreesanth.

 

[Richard]

Well if we are judging fast bowlers on how Viv fared then Duncan Spencer must be up there.

I remeber seeing him rough Richards up very badly in a Kent v Glamorgan game in the early 90's.

That boy was lightning, very skiddy and frightning. Oh and also a steroid user but that was years later.

Well... a bit different with the 40-year-old Viv than the one of most of his career, too.

 

[Richard]

Funny how when one batsman goes off hurt, it's sensible. When another goes off with a giant egg on the side of his head, he's scared. If Papps gets a run against Fidel Edwards in the next test, perhaps he can prove that such allegations are vindictive and baseless.

Err, what? I had no clue he had an egg on the side of his face. Have you seen me mention it?
I've only replied to other people who suggested Papps was scared of Lee - maybe there was something besides a retired-hurt instance? I didn't see the thing myself.
Don't talk to me as if I was the one making the allegations.

Err, what yourself. You can spin it however you like, but you've made it quite clear in the past that you think pace is of little consequence. You were spouting on about all that during the "who's fastest" debates of a couple of years ago - probably with the intent of raining on everyone elses parade, which you seem to enjoy.

Rubbish, I've said many times exactly what I said. You can try spinning it, but you won't be able to change either what I said or what I meant. I'll rain on whatever parades I want, if those parades deserve raining on. Some talk of pace does. But I've never said anything of the sort that pace doesn't matter.

Not at all clear. I couldn't use tests as a fair example in Bond's case anyway, as he's only played them once. But I still think it's ridiculous to suggest that either he or Harmison could possibly be scared of Gilchrist, as you suggest. They may not enjoy being hit for six, but they sure as heck don't need to worry about physical harm.

No, they don't - but if you seriously think there's not big evidence that Gilchrist does intimidate bowlers (Harmison and Bond were merely 2 examples, nothing specific) plenty, you're sadly mistaken.
Gilchrist has been repeatedly rated "scariest batsman" or whatever.
These days, bowling is much, much less scary than it used to be.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I had no clue he had an egg on the side of his face...
...I've only replied to other people who suggested Papps was scared of Lee - maybe there was something besides a retired-hurt instance? I didn't see the thing myself.
Don't talk to me as if I was the one making the allegations.

Perhaps you were not the one who originally made the allegations, but in this thread it was you who singled out Michael Papps as some sort of nancy-boy for the purpose of supporting your argument. That you relied on the opinions of someone else when slagging off a player is staggering.

I'll rain on whatever parades I want, if those parades deserve raining on.

Naturally it's up to you to decide what's correct and what's not. Intelligent debate be damned.

No, they don't - but if you seriously think there's not big evidence that Gilchrist does intimidate bowlers (Harmison and Bond were merely 2 examples, nothing specific) plenty, you're sadly mistaken.
Gilchrist has been repeatedly rated "scariest batsman" or whatever.

Absolutely, I don't dispute that. It does seem odd though, that you would choose to name two of the world's better bowlers (and highly unlikely to be scared of anyone) to illustrate your point.

 

[marc71178]

Naturally it's up to you to decide what's correct and what's not. Intelligent debate be damned.

Hasn't taken you long to suss him out!

 

[IndianByHeart]

Well - it means that you're not adverse to putting him in when you name nonsense like Sreesanth.

So Santh is nonesense??? what you are saying is more of a nonesense!

 

[Smudge]

Hasn't taken you long to suss him out!

Although he's either been here before or has done a LOT of reading:

You were spouting on about all that during the "who's fastest" debates of a couple of years ago - probably with the intent of raining on everyone elses parade, which you seem to enjoy.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Voltman gets the prize!

I was a member here a couple of years ago...