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Bowler batting skills
- Thread starter stephen
- Start date
Howe_zat
Audio File
I was thinking about this recently too. It's definitely true that when bowlers are picked in part to bat at a no.8, it happens a lot more often with spinners - there are after all some coaches that seem to believe this is the main point of a spinner. Conversely, if a batsman decides to turn his arm over, more often than not he'll tend to come on for a tweak rather than for a burst.
I think a lot of it's to do with the sheer physical effort of fast bowling. It takes a lot out of you on the field, in the nets and in coaching.
Often when a spinner is also a handy no.8, it's because they've been around for a long time and have steadily got to grips with their batting thanks to coaches. Alternatively, a batsman has steadily improved his part-time tweak into something substantial.
It could also be that, when a player is young rising through the ranks, they mostly have two strings to their bow anyway - but if one of them is fast bowling, that tends to take precedence over anything else because of the physical challenge it is to mould it. If it's spin bowling, there's a better chance for the player to keep going with both disciplines.
This is also all true of medium-pace trundle as well as spin, it's just that we rarely see much medium pace in Test cricket now.
I think a lot of it's to do with the sheer physical effort of fast bowling. It takes a lot out of you on the field, in the nets and in coaching.
Often when a spinner is also a handy no.8, it's because they've been around for a long time and have steadily got to grips with their batting thanks to coaches. Alternatively, a batsman has steadily improved his part-time tweak into something substantial.
It could also be that, when a player is young rising through the ranks, they mostly have two strings to their bow anyway - but if one of them is fast bowling, that tends to take precedence over anything else because of the physical challenge it is to mould it. If it's spin bowling, there's a better chance for the player to keep going with both disciplines.
This is also all true of medium-pace trundle as well as spin, it's just that we rarely see much medium pace in Test cricket now.
Howe_zat
Audio File
Yeah, but a lot fewer than quick bowlers.
Himannv
Hall of Fame Member
In general there are more quick bowlers per lineup than spinners. Odds are you would find more fast bowlers who cant bat than spinners.
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
You have to be able to provide more than just bowling in the main as a spinner, because it is more likely than a quick that you will have to be carried through one innings to provide extra potency in the second innings.
Howe_zat
Audio File
Well, yes, I mean relatively speaking, there's more chance of a batsman being a rabbit if he's a fast bowler than a spinner. Most tailend batting records (e.g. most runs without a century, most runs from #8, most runs from #9, and those records from various countries) will be held by a spinner, and that's despite there being fewer spinners in the game than quicks.
Himannv
Hall of Fame Member
Best number 11 batsmen. There are a good number of quick bowlers in there:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Howe_zat
Audio File
Well yes, but that doesn't really contradict me because the #11 is the worst batsman in the side. Performing with the bat from #11 just means they exceeded expectations, as only those down to #9 are going to be picked with their batting in mind.
Besides, 4 of the top 8 on that list are spinners anyway.
Himannv
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah posted that because I went and checked it out myself since Statsguru was open. Its an interesting list. Didn't know Rhodes batted as low as that on occasions. At the very bottom of the list, there are quite a few spin bowlers there who weren't as good as some of the others.
Outswinger@Pace
International 12th Man
Get off your high horses, you spin Nazis.
Posts reported for racism!
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Good try but this doesn't seem likely - I don't see why getting tired in the nets should stop you from being a good batsman.
I don't know what the answer is. But that isn't it.
weeman27bob
International Vice-Captain
Because you're therefore less willing/less able to spend more time batting in the nets?
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I don't buy this - everyone gets a turn in the nets. Unless you are chris martin and you cycle to practice without any equipment.
I just think that the type of athlete you are is very different between a batsman and a bowler.
I also think it is the type of thinker you are - batting is pretty cerebral - bowling fast requires a different type of cunning. The better the bowler you are the smarter you are about cricket and about bowling it is true. But it is a different type of smarts. It is emotional intelligence almost. Psyching out the batsman - setting him up with a surprise delivery. Predicting his next move. I speculate that bowling is more about being an "F" from MBTI.
Batting is more about being a T. And use cold calculations when you are at the crease.
I reckon that spin bowling is more of a thinking man's game as well compared to fast bowling. You have to analyse the batsman's technique and bowl to his weaknesses - I realise fast bowlers do this too - but because a spin bowler can't intimidate a batsman and is less likely to bowl an unplayable ball (unless you are Warne ball of the century) - you have to resort to thinking more than a fast bowler does. I support this statistically by pointing out that most fast bowlers have better SRs than spin bowlers and don't have to bowl as many balls for their wickets.
Therefore I reckon a spin bowler is more likely to share the personality of a batsman than a fast bowler is. That is more cerebral.
(I realise I am just bull****ting here and pulling this out of my ass but I reckon it as a good a theory as anyone else's.)
Burgey
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Haha. This.
weeman27bob
International Vice-Captain
Which (of any) of Hafeez, Raina, Vettori, Shakib, Razzak and Yuvraj count as front line bowlers?
Presumably Vettori, Shakib and Razzak?
Presumably Vettori, Shakib and Razzak?